Why are so many English people so cold and reserved?

[Seventell]

Im English myself. But i havent lived In England for a long time.

Ive had a nice career and ive lived and worked all over Europe. I most recently, was living in Italy.

My female boss in italy was so nice.

The first day that i was there, she asked me what i liked to do, i said that i liked to go to art classes. She told me about all the art museums in the area.

She looked up art classes for me to go to.
She also used to bring in little cakes for me every day. She said things like "if you ever need help with anything, ask me" my other colleagues were all really nice to me aswell. They would invite me out for dinners, and they were all so kind.

Ive just moved back to England two weeks ago. Im just shocked! My boss here is so cold. But not just cold. He seems really emotionally stunted, like he is barely able to have a conversation.
My other colleagues are like that aswell. They are really cold.
Ive also gone out to groups and ive seen that english people are much colder in these groups, then people are in other countries that ive lived in

Its just made me think - what has happened to english people. A lot of them seem so emotionally stunted and emotionally damaged.

I don't think anyone mentioned 'race' until you did.

And do you know of any mega cities where people are super friendly to strangers? New Yorkers are famously brusque. Parisians notoriously rude, although of course I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions in both cases. Given its vast size and often transient population, I don't think London is all that unfriendly.

The rudest woman I've encountered was in Verona in a souvenir shop. No hello, no smile, please or thank you/ciao/ etc. I'm not about to judge all Italians the same.

OK, you are going too far now.
Stop with this nonsense.

Can you describe what you think is globally connected?

I think globally connected is living in and experiencing different cultures.

Its not their fault, but Brexit has made it harder for people to do that. Brexit has made the UK more isolated.
Eg in my workplace, none of my English colleagues have ever lived abroad.

Hmmm.

I'm English and I lived in Italy for 3 years.

In my experience, people are superficially more open, warm and chatty. But they won't really let you into their lives unless they've known you for years.

How disingenuous of you when you just explained away the rudeness of Londonders are being perpetrated by the percentage who are, if not foreign-born, then gasp of frieng extraction.

It's like reading a fucking Agatha Christie novel on here sometimes.

There's an excellent thread above about how globally connected Britain is. I suggest you read it.

And you are the one coming across as insular if you think there is no world beyond the EU. Britons who emigrate tend to choose other English speaking countries rather than European countries, and that has not changed. And while I know nothing of your 'English colleagues' many British people travel and live abroad. Maybe for some reason you never meet these people? As I say, you are coming across as rather insular and parochial, so it could be that.

Anti immigrant racism in Italy is also off the scale (although the conversation around the subject seems to have shifted a bit since I lived there 25 years ago. But still, Meloni is president- 'nuff said)

The thread is about 'English people' and how horrid they are.

40% of Londoners were born abroad. Many of the rest are not English.

That's a relevant point, even if you're feigning outrage.

And I never made any comment on the 'rudeness' of Londoners. The person I was responding to did. Take it up with them.

I think it’s sad the posters who say that you should just accept people being rude to you. I mean you have to accept it,’you can’t change it but it shouldn’t be like that. You’re not the issue - people can be self serving and transactional & lacking basic civil decency.

Most of us spend 40 hours a week at work or a good portion of our week. It’s a place we have to go no matter how we are feeling.

I may not feel like having a conversation with someone or have time but there are nice ways around this. You could say you’re busy, you can smile & make a little joke or small talk. I think people can be incredibly stingy with their time & emotional energy, and fall back on modern psychology “boundaries” to justify this.

We are an individualist society & fairly selfish & we wonder why there is a loneliness and mental health epidemic.

You might not be the first person to give someone a cold shoulder that day - imagine how it feels if everyone is collectively doing it.

Not all of us have families or big networks and friends. I think people who are socially advantaged and do have these things just don’t really care - they have what they need.

These aren’t altruistic, empathetic times that we live & its not always a very kind world for people that haven’t found their pocket and people.

I also lived in Italy for 3 years. I found Northern Italians quite reserved and guarded in public, not at all the stereotype of the exuberant Italian. Southerners are more friendly, but I agree that it's rather superficial, which is fine so long as you recognise it for what it is.

I will also add that Italian 'service' workers can be incredibly rude and curt. And yes, I speak Italian.

Surely you’ve realised this many pages into this thread that people irl haven’t been rude to the OP. They’ve just been ‘normal’, but OP wants all her work colleagues to put on a circus for her to make her feel loved and included.
Expectation gap. That’s all.

Oh, and she’s been very rude on here from the title of this thread, right to her latest post, about the people of this country. But then wonders why people aren’t being kind to her in their posts. Go figure.

You know what you need, OP? A nice cup of tea.

My Italian friend told me the same thing- the friendliness is superficial and under it they do judge a lot on fashion etc in some ‘pockets’.

We have a good campaign in Australia ‘Are you okay ?’ - basically encouraging people to ask each other if they’re okay and to open up about mental health.

Are you okay OP ? Life when you’re lonely and feeling cold can be very empty & a stark reminder that the world is a cold hard place.

Sending a warm cup of tea & 🫖 wishing you find the chat &’connection that it sounds like you need. It’s not nice to feel that cold emptiness.

The OP's stereotyping

You mean the OPs lived experience?

No, I mean the OP's goading.

I think she’s just someone experiencing a culture shock and feels out in the cold in her life and work environment. She’s probably wondering why this is happening and seeking to understand it. I wouldn’t be so defensive - many people say Aussies are emotionally dim & unevolved & without culture. I think in part I would agree with that. I don’t think you can deny that different countries have a vibe & whether it’s the place or the race or the nationality - I think that’s just semantics. You can’t deny some places have a culture that’s cold or different.

Why do you see it as goading when she is just describing her lived experience?

'Eg in my workplace, none of my English colleagues have ever lived abroad.'

Oh, so you've managed to have a conversation in depth enough to find this out about your colleagues - so they're not THAT cold and incommunicative then?

The OP wrote the post when she’d lived back in the UK for two weeks. I agree that it’s culture shock she’s experiencing, but it’s not the ‘lived experience’ of several years. Plus it seems to me a deeply silly and provocative response to that culture shock to go on the internet and generalise about the coldness and cruelty of English people. (I say this as a non-Brit who lived in different parts of England for most of my adult life, and who arrived just after the death of Princess Diana, and privately thought a significant proportion of the inhabitants of my new country were totally unhinged…)

Maybe a group conversation was had.

You seem really enraged with OP.

Is this personal for you ? Are you selective with who you speak to & you’re harbouring guilt or wondering if you’re unkind ?

It's not inappropriate if it's what everyone wants. But plenty of people don't view the workplace as a place to make friends and socialise. It's your job, and the people you do it with are strangers you might never choose to be in contact with under any other circumstance. The mature way to handle this is to approach with a polite 'niceness' that avoids intruding on the personal and isn't particularly deep.

Again, it's not a sign of emotional damage. It's an unwritten social contract most English people understand and take no issue with. You see your coworkers as cold and reserved. They see themselves as respecting your privacy. There are countries you could go to where the social norm is to be friendlier. But that can be a double-edged sword too.

Another poster mentioned Ireland, and you say you have Irish friends too? Irish people can seem incredibly warm and friendly. But the flip side of that is that a lot of it is put on. It can be jarring to make friends with an Irish person, think they're lovely to everyone, and then realise over time that they actually can't stand some of the people they're being 'nice' to, and will share all sorts of personal gossip about them the minute their back is turned. There's also a surprising amount of reserve in the culture that isn't immediately obvious. An Irish person wouldn't dream of being frosty to you, in my experience. But they will make a big song and dance about how much we must go out for dinner, etc, knowing full well they have no intention of doing so. It's a cultural thing. Lots of casual friendliness, and day to day people are very warm, but it's hard for them to connect to outsiders on a deeper level. Ireland is great for a holiday, but a difficult place to settle into and live. Many cultures known for their friendliness are like this, actually.

Personally, I find the English reserve is more honest. I prefer to be upfront with these things.

Her lived experience is not many of the posters insulting her, being racist whom she claims have done so etc etc. She wants to rant. Fine. But she's getting nothing constructive out of it and isn't answering any constructive questions such as 'what would you do differently ' or what did you do for your Italian boss?'

Agree with this entirely. I find people that aren’t ‘nice’ can be ‘good’ & strong instead and to me that means more at this stage in life.

I do think that a certain level of friendliness should be standard in a work place. You don’t want to feel like you’re working in an assembly line & for some people it may be one of their few interactions. It’s also just nice to show basic care for others.

'You seem really enraged with OP.'

Eh? I'm not enraged at all. I'm not English either, so no skin in the game, other than my experience of living and working in England is in no way similar to the OP's. I think the OP has been very rude and insulting to England and the English, after being here for 2 whole weeks.

'Is this personal for you ? Are you selective with who you speak to & you’re harbouring guilt or wondering if you’re unkind ?'

😁 You're doing a great deal of stretching there.

I do think the OP may be the problem in her own scenario though.