Page 29 | AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

Peasnbeans · 2025-05-02T22:01:08+00:00

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist. If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights? I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out! And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

OneAmberFinch · 04/05/2025 13:02

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 12:19

Several European countries have resisted taking in migrants and asylum seekers, including Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic, which have refused to participate in the EU's relocation scheme for refugees from Greece and Italy.
Denmark has also been a leader in returning resettlement refugees to their home countries. These actions have been met with criticism from the EU,

Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic, along with some other eastern European countries, have consistently opposed the EU's mandatory relocation scheme for asylum seekers. They have cited national security concerns, economic impacts, and the perception that the EU is imposing a burden on them

"Frontline" Country Policies:* *
Some countries, like Italy, Greece, and Spain, have implemented policies to discourage migration and restrict asylum claims

If they can do it, so can we.

Show quote history

Well - yes and it's even easier for us as we don't have the mandatory resettlement requirement anymore! And in the short term it makes sense.

I just think in the long term the world where we argue about whether boats should land in Britain or France is one where we missed the boat (ha) on stopping them several countries ago - and that's the role any Europe-wide cooperation scheme should play, not shuffling deckchairs.

MasterBeth · 04/05/2025 13:04

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 11:01

@MasterBeth
My searching can't find ANY purpose-built asylum seeker accomodation in the UK. There was the Bibby barge that was shut down because it became dangerous. There were plans for two military bases to be taken over and plans to rent out a student block in Huddersfield (student rooms are literally not deemed large enough for normal working people to live in). No purpose-built accomodation, as far as I can see. (Feel free to show me I'm wrong.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dmgpljy45o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-67996354
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-66544701
https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/fresh-450m-funding-round-opens-for-council-refugee-housing-scheme-with-focus-on-new-build/5128255.article

Thank-you for going to the effort of finding these examples, but none of these schemes are for asylum seekers and none of these schemes are purpose built accommodation.

These are homes for Ukrainian families fleeing from Putin and Afghani families fleeing the Taliban after they have been granted asylum.

And they are either repurposed office buildings or private sector housing.

I can appreciate that many people on this thread will not appreciate the difference, which only goes to build the myths...

MasterBeth · 04/05/2025 13:20

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 11:19

To be fair to the previous poster there seems to be quite a lot of well-meaning workplace guidance regarding colleagues and Ramadan that suggests her anecdote might be true - even if the 'no eating in the office' that month was a suggestion or polite request:

For other meetings, something as simple as avoiding having biscuits on the table could demonstrate sensitivity to a Muslim colleague’s observance of Ramadan.

https://www.lewissilkin.com/insights/2024/03/06/ramadan-employment-issues

5. Raise awareness among co-workers
Simple steps like suspending cake mornings for a month can also help employees who are fasting feel more comfortable.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/ramadan-2022-rules-employers-staff-23590950

Show quote history

This is a brilliant example of how myths and anecdotes become multiplied, sometimes accidentally, sometimes not.

My former work colleague wasn’t too happy when she was told not to eat in the office during Ramadan because it upset her Muslim Co-workers.

Was she told not to eat anything in the office? Did it upset her colleagues? Did any of her colleagues report being upset? Did she have a conversation with them about it?

Or...

Was she asked to think about what and when she ate in the office in order to help her colleagues get through their fast?

If you can't do the second, you're a pretty nasty individual.

FlyPhobicDog · 04/05/2025 13:31

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 11:19

To be fair to the previous poster there seems to be quite a lot of well-meaning workplace guidance regarding colleagues and Ramadan that suggests her anecdote might be true - even if the 'no eating in the office' that month was a suggestion or polite request:

For other meetings, something as simple as avoiding having biscuits on the table could demonstrate sensitivity to a Muslim colleague’s observance of Ramadan.

https://www.lewissilkin.com/insights/2024/03/06/ramadan-employment-issues

5. Raise awareness among co-workers
Simple steps like suspending cake mornings for a month can also help employees who are fasting feel more comfortable.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/ramadan-2022-rules-employers-staff-23590950

Show quote history

Sounds more likely. I doubt these suggestions came from fasters themselves. Not every muslim fasts either (depending on things like health, etc.) and obviously people still make food for kids during Ramadan.

springbirdss · 04/05/2025 13:45

HellsBalls · 04/05/2025 10:15

Which just leads to wage suppression in those industries. Building, hospitality, factory etc etc wages stagnated while a never ending stream of people from poorer countries would come here and work for low wages.
In tech, the skilled workers visa which requires a minimum payment of £38k will basically now be the benchmark salary. Anyone trying to get more than this will be met with ‘We can get an Indian onsite for £38k’.
Tech has already been decimated with the outsourcing, this is taking it one step further.

Show quote history

Even with the outsourcing, there are still massive skill shortages in all of those fields (including tech). They are not oversaturated with migrant workers, they are struggling even with migrant workers. So imagine if those shortages were not supplemented at all. That's 1 in 5 NHS staff gone, for a start!

HellsBalls · 04/05/2025 13:52

springbirdss · 04/05/2025 13:45

Even with the outsourcing, there are still massive skill shortages in all of those fields (including tech). They are not oversaturated with migrant workers, they are struggling even with migrant workers. So imagine if those shortages were not supplemented at all. That's 1 in 5 NHS staff gone, for a start!

Show quote history

That’s what the companies tell you. They are interested in their profits. And they can enhance their profits by employing cheap labour.

marshmallowmix · 04/05/2025 14:02

springbirdss · 04/05/2025 13:45

Even with the outsourcing, there are still massive skill shortages in all of those fields (including tech). They are not oversaturated with migrant workers, they are struggling even with migrant workers. So imagine if those shortages were not supplemented at all. That's 1 in 5 NHS staff gone, for a start!

Show quote history

100% this @HellsBalls !

there are forums on this very topic …tech and IT have been absolutely decimated and so many cannot get jobs in IT due to outsourcing and workers coming here and doing the job for half the going rate…wages have been driven down salaries have been undercut big style. It’s the worst it’s ever been…

I know many many people who can’t get work in tech/IT due to outsourcing and under cutting by foreign workers it’s a huge problem and should not be allowed.

you are talking nonsense @springbirdss …tell that to people that have been looking for jobs for 2 years plus in tech …we’ve stitched them up with foreign workers no wonder there is a backlash coming …companies using cheap labour and govt allowing it by the never ending steam of immigrants …

we shit on our own …other countries don’t to such an extent as we are doing…

Dangermoo · 04/05/2025 14:06

Somerford · 04/05/2025 10:41

100% virtue signalling brainlet

Show quote history

😆 😆 😆 😆 😅

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 14:08

MasterBeth · 04/05/2025 13:20

This is a brilliant example of how myths and anecdotes become multiplied, sometimes accidentally, sometimes not.

My former work colleague wasn’t too happy when she was told not to eat in the office during Ramadan because it upset her Muslim Co-workers.

Was she told not to eat anything in the office? Did it upset her colleagues? Did any of her colleagues report being upset? Did she have a conversation with them about it?

Or...

Was she asked to think about what and when she ate in the office in order to help her colleagues get through their fast?

If you can't do the second, you're a pretty nasty individual.

Show quote history

To be fair, the previous poster said her ex-colleague didn't have an alternative room to eat in. Also, you calling other people 'pretty nasty individuals' is a bit much I think - a month is quite a lengthy time to make accommodations.

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 14:15

MasterBeth · 04/05/2025 13:04

Thank-you for going to the effort of finding these examples, but none of these schemes are for asylum seekers and none of these schemes are purpose built accommodation.

These are homes for Ukrainian families fleeing from Putin and Afghani families fleeing the Taliban after they have been granted asylum.

And they are either repurposed office buildings or private sector housing.

I can appreciate that many people on this thread will not appreciate the difference, which only goes to build the myths...

Show quote history

I appreciate the difference in refugee status but my last link was a local authority grant to resettle refugees, including building new homes for them - this is something that has featured in the council elections.

StupidBoy · 04/05/2025 15:07

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 12:07

@StupidBoy So we absolutely should do what what we can do minimise suffering and it absolutely does matter whether a sentient being is conscious and terrified as bleeds to death.

Yes, but how do you know that stunning makes the animal insensitive? Maybe all you get is a more compliant animal, not an unconscious one.

The kindest method to dispatch a farm animal is a Captive Bolt Pistol - if used properly.

Years ago ECT (Electro Convulsant Therapy) was used to treat depression in humans. The patient was anaesthatised and electric shocks administered to the brain.
If this was a painless procedure why were patients anesthatised first?

I have no idea what is or isn't the best, kindest and most foolproof method. I'm not a vet. But I do know that something is better than nothing and I know that doing nothing is the cruel.

Allergictoironing · 04/05/2025 15:10

marshmallowmix · 04/05/2025 14:02

100% this @HellsBalls !

there are forums on this very topic …tech and IT have been absolutely decimated and so many cannot get jobs in IT due to outsourcing and workers coming here and doing the job for half the going rate…wages have been driven down salaries have been undercut big style. It’s the worst it’s ever been…

I know many many people who can’t get work in tech/IT due to outsourcing and under cutting by foreign workers it’s a huge problem and should not be allowed.

you are talking nonsense @springbirdss …tell that to people that have been looking for jobs for 2 years plus in tech …we’ve stitched them up with foreign workers no wonder there is a backlash coming …companies using cheap labour and govt allowing it by the never ending steam of immigrants …

we shit on our own …other countries don’t to such an extent as we are doing…

Edited

Show quote history

From what I recall from a few years ago when I was working in that area, it wasn't so much immigrant workers in the UK as the work being moved off shore to other countries.

marshmallowmix · 04/05/2025 15:36

Is both offshoring and workers now in U.K. it’s real and happening daily day

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:01

Idontsweat · 04/05/2025 10:27

If they are criminals yes, that's exactly what I want. That's what every country does, or should do if the criminals have been found. Its not just trump that does that. All countries do this. Probably not UK because UK is a shambles and won't be able to locate these criminals. Each country has its own bloody criminals to house and deal with , migrant criminals should be sent back to their own country for their own country to house and deal with. And, no, Trump doesn't cheerfully deport to foreign prisons "anyone who he doesn't like the look of". This sort of slander dhould be banned on social media platforms. It's ridiculous. If you don't like a politician , that's fine. But you shouldn't be spouting lies and slandering people just to fit your narrative. He is deporting illegal migrants and criminals, which is a 100%what I'd want to happen here. He hasn't deported any of my family or friends who have moved there because they have moved there legally and are not fecking criminals. They are doing bloody well in the US.

Show quote history

So you know they are all criminals? They have had no legal process to determine if they are or if they are not! And in the case where it is known that they made a mistake, that the administration admitted to, Trump personally will not allow that to be rectified (even though the courts have ordered him to) and is doubling down on the photoshopped image of his tattoo as being real.

AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:07

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 10:40

To quote Starmer - "we have difficult decisions to make" so yes, a good idea.

They'd only have to send one plane load and the boats would stop overnight. 🙂

Show quote history

They have sent several planeloads already, just after following legal process. I have no issue with deporting people if legal processes have been followed.

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:10

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:07

They have sent several planeloads already, just after following legal process. I have no issue with deporting people if legal processes have been followed.

Show quote history

Oh and also they haven't been sent to rot in a notorious jail for the rest of their lives. I'm fairly sure that most countries don't pick people up off the street and send them to prison for life in another country without any legal process being followed.

OneAmberFinch · 04/05/2025 16:18

I work adjacent to the tech sector and there is definitely a lot of commodity IT work which is done by consultancies that sponsor very very heavily. A lot of contract software development isn't particularly niche to the point that British devs couldn't do it (we're not talking about nuclear reactors here). The US shows that the ceiling for English-speaking moderately-experienced software engineers is quite a bit higher than wages here (I was shocked when I saw what devs earn here).

It's hard to speak in averages because there will always be exceptions, people who are needed for very niche technical skills etc, but I also don't think it's correct to look at the IT Skilled Worker numbers and just say "yup, all of them must be necessary". Many of them are doing fairly commodity-level work and are mainly acting as wage suppression rather than bringing in specific skills.

I suspect this is also true within the NHS. In the NHS case, the "evil big business which wants to suppress wages" is the government itself - which is convenient when they get to make the rules ;)

OneAmberFinch · 04/05/2025 16:21

I also agree with posters who point out that there are a lot of people searching for work in the tech sector lately and this has been particularly true for the last year or so.

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:31

LakieLady · 04/05/2025 11:43

The party that shouts loudest about "uncontrolled mass immigration" is, ironically, the party that had Brexit as virtually its sole focus before the referendum and changed its change to "Reform" to disguise the fact.

It's thanks to their beloved bloody Brexit that the UK no longer has the right to return migrants who have entered via another EU country (eg France) to "the first safe EU state". Any fool could see that there was no way those Dublin Agreement rights could be retained post-Brexit, and anyone who voted to leave in the belief that it would reduce immigration was either delusional or taken in by a pack of lies.

It's thanks to losing that right that we now have desperate people risking (and often losing) their lives crossing the channel in rubber dinghies in significant numbers. Everyone who voted to leave the EU in the hope that there'd be fewer "forriners" needs to own their part in creating that problem.

Added to which, it meant that we lost many of those EU immigrants who were working in the NHS and social care and whose jobs are now being done by immigrants from other parts of the world, because there aren't enough British people doing those jobs.

Show quote history

Yes, the influx of people from outside the EU was one of the widely predicted consequences of Brexit that was dismissed as "project fear" iirc.

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 16:49

BIossomtoes · 04/05/2025 12:29

Every member of the armed forces is attacked every time they leave the house? Wow.

Show quote history

Don't be silly.

Lee Rigby ?

and

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/24/kent-soldier-stabbing-police

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 16:56

StupidBoy · 04/05/2025 15:07

I have no idea what is or isn't the best, kindest and most foolproof method. I'm not a vet. But I do know that something is better than nothing and I know that doing nothing is the cruel.

Show quote history

The best and kindest idea is not to eat them in the first place.

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 16:59

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 16:49

Don't be silly.

Lee Rigby ?

and

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/24/kent-soldier-stabbing-police

Show quote history

And here's the "pin-up boy" who stabbed one of our serving soldiers

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/trial-delayed-for-man-accused-of-trying-to-stab-soldier-to-d-317845/

Trial delayed for man accused of trying to stab soldier to death

The trial of a 24-year-old man accused of attempted murder has been delayed again.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/trial-delayed-for-man-accused-of-trying-to-stab-soldier-to-d-317845/

Moveanymountain · 04/05/2025 17:00

springbirdss · 04/05/2025 08:10

The UK does not accept an 'unfair' amount of asylum seekers.
We are obligated to protect asylum seekers under international law.
We accept roughly 1% of the world's refugees.
Asylum seekers make up about 0.6% of our population.

They are not a burden to the state, this is a myth.
They have every right to come here.

Still waiting for someone to provide a reputable source (or any source for that matter) about lawyers protecting rapists from deportation.

Show quote history

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/03/jamaican-rapist-criminal-record-so-bad-cant-be-deported/

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/sep/20/uk-deport-nigerian-european-court

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64553361.amp

https://www.gbnews.com/news/albania-paedophile-raped-schoolgirl-home-office-deportation-gjin-gjergji

These are just a few. It is less than one week since a change to the law was agreed to prevent known foreign sex offenders from claiming asylum. Prior to that, known sex offenders could claim refugee protections. And that is known offenders - who knows how many sex offenders are able to enter the UK as they don’t exactly undergo a PVG/DBS check.

We have to also acknowledge that many countries people are migrating from have appalling women’s rights and have cultures where women and girls are seen as less than men/worthless. Rape gangs in the UK such as in Rotherham etc bear testament to this. These men are not going to land in the UK and suddenly be pro equal rights.

As previously stated, I’d like nothing more than to protect all women and girls in such places but the UK is not equipped to do so socially, legally or financially.

UK cannot deport Nigerian convicted of rape, European court rules

European court of human rights says removal would breach right to family life in ruling that could curtail Home Office powers

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/sep/20/uk-deport-nigerian-european-court

bellsanddogwhistles · 04/05/2025 17:06

@Moveanymountain As previously stated, I’d like nothing more than to protect all women and girls in such places but the UK is not equipped to do so socially, legally or financially.

And even the government doesn't take it seriously - can it get any worse ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lucy-powell-dog-whistle-grooming-gangs-b2744592.html

Clavinova · 04/05/2025 17:06

Azdcgbjml · 04/05/2025 16:31

Yes, the influx of people from outside the EU was one of the widely predicted consequences of Brexit that was dismissed as "project fear" iirc.

Show quote history

Over 6 million people applied to the EU Settlement Scheme so there were underestimates on both sides. Not to mention that 1 million people who applied to the EU Settlement Scheme were not born in the EU (the majority born in Asia, Africa and South America) - they came to the UK via EU freedom of movement rules.