AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

Then that's good,

I don't have a problem with Immigration per se.

My problem is uncontrolled immigration.

@DoraSpenlowThat sounds awful, sounds like they’re Roma from Romania though, not ethnic Romanians. Ordinary Romanians don’t live like this. This sort of behaviour from Roma is a problem all over Eastern and parts of Southern Europe, we don’t want them in our countries either.
I don’t know what the answer is. I do think if you emigrate somewhere and break the law or are found to be behaving antisocially more than twice you should be deported.

Exactly @BundleBoogie !

They are housed in nice hotels near me they were in the Crowne Plaza…

lots of weddings and events cancelled as hotels taken over…

we are far too soft and make it too appealing …tax payers should not be funding 4 and 5 star hotels it’s as simple as that.

Some people like @MasterBeth will contradict and argue til they are blue in the face it’s comical looking at this thread …facts are facts but that doesn’t suit them it’s quite hilarious 🤣

Genuine shortages, yes. Kebab shop workers - no!

So you don't mind the fact that people are paying traffickers and risking their lives in small boats?

Why does Starmer say that small boat crossings are "a risk to our national security and we need to take control of our borders."

The fault of our country's economic problems does not lie with a vulnerable minority and never has done.

@Chocaholic37 I do think if you emigrate somewhere and break the law or are found to be behaving antisocially more than twice you should be deported.

I could not agree more.
Unfortunately if UK doesn't have a "returns agreement" the country concerned they won't take them back and we are to be a dumping ground for all the dross in Europe.
In England and Wales, there were approximately 10,422 foreign national prisoners as of the end of the first quarter of 2024, representing about 11.9% of the total prison population.
1,475 are Albanian.

You can keep saying "international law" as much as you like but the UK can implement its own policy, such as rejecting claims from asylum seekers who have willingly chosen to pass through multiple safe countries before arriving here. Nobody can compel us to keep putting up with this in perpetuity, that the political class continues to do it is largely why this Labour government will be no more than a single term and they'll be replaced by Reform or potentially something further to the right.

You also keep saying they don't burden the state. They cost millions of pounds a day and billions of pounds a year.

Anyway all this lacking to accept that there is now a huge problem and we have too much uncontrolled immigration on both fronts legal and illegal …this is why Reform is where they are now.

The more people are in denial and won’t accept that we have a problem the stronger Reform will become as so many aren’t being listened to.

Decades ago net immigration was in the tens of thousands then in 2024 it was almost 800k that is not sustainable it’s like adding a massive city !

Brexit happened off the back of immigration.

Reform is the only one offering to stop it and start deporting people who shouldn't be here hence their popularity is growing.

I never said it did.

I said it was a "burden on the state" which it is.

£5.4 billion would pay for the Winter Fuel Payments for our own elderly and vulnerable.

£5.4b is a burden on the state though.

Pointless giving job titles with zero context, we have no way of knowing whether these are full time permanent jobs or part time and/or temp, or why the role may be needed or wanted, or whether that's one aspect of a job that covers many duties.

Walking co-ordinator - doubt this is a full time role, I've seen many "jobs" advertised for local government which are part time, irregular (e.g. 2 evenings a month minuting meetings, then 4 hours per month writing up & distributing minutes & agendas), or even volunteer "jobs".

Roller disco coach: Without context, and whether this was a one off event, impossible to tell.

Bouncy castle attendant: See above. Or possibly a council run soft play type venue, where this type of role is absolutely critical!

Equality and Diversity Advisors: Absolutely critical part of HR! You still get sexism, racism, ageism, and disablism in offices. They ensure that reasonable adjustments can be made for staff with disabilities so they can work without discomfort etc. They ensure that people aren't disadvantaged or bullied because of any differences they may have, or disadvantaged because they have children. Or called racist slurs.

Sustainability officers: These roles usually ARE "integrated into other departments", they won't be an entire directorate of their own. Usually under something like communities, environment etc.

Transformation teams: Yep these teams tend to be put together for specific projects, and as that project winds down the permanent staff are then redeployed onto the next project, then the next. Of course a project isn't just implemented and that's it anyway; there is usually reviews after 3, 6 and 12 months at least (depending on the type of project) to tweak things, ensure they've been implemented properly, ensure that you're getting the results you envisioned, see if more needs to be done in an area. So someone could well have moved on mostly to a new project, but still be "recalled" to perform reviews, or there may be staff who's main role is post implementation work. And of course some of the jobs advertised for this type of work are on fixed term or rolling contracts until the end of a project.

The problem is that there aren't enough safe routes to UK and the asylum claim process is very difficult, which encourages people to be reckless out of desperation.

Why does Starmer say that small boat crossings are "a risk to our national security and we need to take control of our borders."

Maybe because Starmer is trying to appeal to right leaning voters?

A better and more humane system for receiving asylum seekers to this country might solve some of these problems.

Have you not considered how money might have been wasted elsewhere?

@springbirdssif you were to determine routes from many countries how many people would you want to take in?

Oh that’s OK then

@springbirdss The problem is that there aren't enough safe routes to UK and the asylum claim process is very difficult, which encourages people to be reckless out of desperation

Oh my hat ! Not that one again!

There are, sadly, people all over the world that are living in appalling conditions and suffering war and persecution, but we cannot help them all and cannot bring them all here.

We do not need any more routes as these won't stop traffickers.

There are "safe and legal routes and they are detailed here - www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2024/safe-and-legal-humanitarian-routes-to-the-uk

I wonder if you are this keenly aware of other financial decisions made by successive governments and the impact they've had?

The scapegoating of a small group to distract from real problems/policy failures is a tactic as old as time.

Not relevant. You've said repeatedly that asylum seekers are not a burden on the state, £5.4b annually is a huge burden regardless of how wasteful the government is in other areas

There are, sadly, people all over the world that are living in appalling conditions and suffering war and persecution, but we cannot help them all and cannot bring them all here.

No, but we have a duty to protect the ones that arrive here??

The humanitarian routes you linked me to only include those for Ukrainians, people on certain visas and resettlement schemes. The vast majority of asylum seekers won't qualify, or be able to apply in time, for these schemes.

@bellsanddogwhistlesI don’t know how it works exactly, but if they’re citizens of X country, then how can that country refuse to take them back, surely they’re just being sent back to where they lived not long previously?

Oh, it most absolutely is relevant.

as I've said a million times, we are OBLIGATED to protect refugees and grant asylum.

This isn't up for debate. In fact, we barely do our bit compared to many other European countries.

£5.4b towards refugees is an important use of taxpayer's money.

It is being wielded as a distraction from real economic failings.

You can keep saying "international law" as much as you like but the UK can implement its own policy, such as rejecting claims from asylum seekers who have willingly chosen to pass through multiple safe countries before arriving here.

Not true, sorry.

@springbirdss here are, sadly, people all over the world that are living in appalling conditions and suffering war and persecution, but we cannot help them all and cannot bring them all here.

No, but we have a duty to protect the ones that arrive here??

Not at the expense of our own citizens.
Dame Andrea Jenkins had the right idea when she said put the migrants in tents, and while we are at it let the elderly be billeted in hotels.
We'd soon see a drop in arrivals.

The humanitarian routes you linked me to only include those for Ukrainians, people on certain visas and resettlement schemes. The vast majority of asylum seekers won't qualify, or be able to apply in time, for these schemes.

Then they can't come that way can they?

Demand is infinite and resources are finite, and our first duty is to our own citizens.

That’s not the case. We spend more pp than other G7 countries by 2.5 times.

And this

The UK spends significantly more on asylum seeker costs than other G7 nations, with a per capita cost 150% higher than the next highest G7 country