AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

Absolutely this.

Why is skin colour in any way, shape or form problematic?

I’m white British. Going back generations.
Relatively recently discovered that 9 generations back, my grandparents were black, Caribbean.

Would never have had a problem with that. I’m proud of my ancestors, whoever they are. They made me.

I suspect that many millions of white British people who support Reform share similar ancestry.

FFS, we’re all human beings.

That's funny, in my area, which is very multicultural with people from all over the world, all the people I know of that are tangled up in drugs and crime are very much white British.

Centuries might be pushing it, but it can take a long time in some circumstances.

It's much easier under ideal circumstances, for example where there is a longer standing shared culture, where the people are more highly educated and sophisticated, where there is a common language or the newcomers speak the new language well, where there is shared religion. For example.

Also, it's a big difference if the community becomes a kind of enclave, or integrates more fully in terms of social life, where they live, marriage, etc.

In many cases in the recent past you are seeing typically people with some connections, like language, western styles of government and education, and shared religion. And also often well educated people who are coming to work. That's a best case scenario for integration.

But the more differernt people are, and more insular, the more difficult integration is, and the more effort and resources it takes.

Even in a best case scenario very high levels of immigration will cause stress on communities and potentially outstrip the resources required, which are not only economic but social.

Are you saying that when your friends report the anti-social behaviour to the council and to the police, they both say that it's their neighbour's culture so nothing can be done? That sounds very unlikely. If this is the case, they can escalate to an ASB Review and then to the Ombudsman.

I have a general question to those participating in the thread who are determined to minimise every negative experience posters are reporting.

Are there any negative effects to the existing community (potential or actual) that you acknowledge? Or is immigration just an unmitigated good in your mind so the only possible reason anyone could complain is that they are evil racist scum?

There are plenty & too much immigration is not a good thing at all, as posters have said but how do you deal with this?

eg a migrant worker with the skills we need come here with their children or have children whilst here... their children don't grow up to become law abiding citizens.. what will you do about that?

the fact is that whilst we need hi skilled professional people we also need far more construction workers, meat packers, care workers etc etc or we accept higher prices, less care packages and less houses being built.

We are an aging population but we are also a weird one, we don't want immigration yet we don't support changes to benefits to get people not in work, back to work either... changes to PIP is apparently one reason why Labour did so badly on Thursday!

Well, the first claim is completely made up by your ex colleague or yourself, so we can scrub that.

2nd point is that if you eat meat please have a tour of an abbotoir to see the conditions in which your non halal meat is acquired.

Quite frankly to eat meat then express concern about the welfare of the animal is ridiculous, you can see that surely?

Oh and the person you Reform party supporters really voted, the lazy racist grifter Nigel Farage , thinks this country is like the one where he spends most of his time and that workers can be sacked for no reason and that hybrid working contracts don't mean anything. He obviously doesn't know what unions are either :

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/farage-reform-durham-council-staff-jobs-b2744299.html

@Guinessandafire You've obviously not worked in Local Government !

Here are some more jobs that could go without being missed -

Walking co-ordinator:
While promoting healthy lifestyles is important, some argue that this role is unnecessary and could be handled by existing staff or volunteers.

Roller disco coach:
This role has been criticized as a frivolous expense that could be better allocated to more essential services.

Bouncy castle attendant:
Similar to the roller disco coach, this role is seen by some as a waste of taxpayer money.

Equality and Diversity Advisors:
Some argue that these roles are unnecessary and could be integrated into existing departments or handled by volunteers.

Sustainability officers:
While sustainability is important, some question the need for dedicated staff in this area, suggesting it could be integrated into other departments.

Transformation teams:
These teams, often created to implement specific projects, are sometimes criticized for continuing to exist long after the projects are completed

Why on earth do you think those roles shouldn't exist?

What staff do you think are going to be willing to do these jobs on top of their existing work load , or think that people will do it for free?

Why shouldn't a roller disco coach be paid, they are hardly going to be a full time permanent member on a huge wage anyway.

Have you just cut and pasted this nonsense from a Reform propaganda site?

What I understood from the mention of these figures is that they were used as a proxy marker to highlight the presumed speed of cultural change, on the assumption that an increase in different skin colours during that time is a reliable indicator of the changing cultural makeup of the population (information which might be more difficult to track down? Or not, I don’t know.) But there are a lot of assumptions wrapped up there, that being non-white equals being un-British, and being from a different incoming culture doesn’t make a difference as long as you are white. Presumably you can look at census data for detailed ethnic background, and this will be more interesting and informative and will also capture migrant communities who are white.

I have two nephews who have a non-white foreign father and a white British mother (my sister). I guess they would be included in the pp’s figures. But it’s laughable to suggest their presence is erasing the culture of the uk or that they are not integrated. They are as British as anyone. White Brits do not have sole preserve over Britishness. There are non-white Brits who were born here and have lived in the country longer than me. What right do I have to say I am more ‘British’ than them!? Our citizenship is jus solis.

I also have Irish heritage on one side (and am entitled to an Irish passport). But no-one would accuse me of changing the culture of Britain with my x-generation immigrant genes and culture. Not least because I’m a white woman and they wouldn’t know unless I told them. Yet ‘no Irish’ on doors remains within living memory for many people.

They are likely to be Roma. They may be from Romania, but the Roma have come to the UK from many parts of Europe, where they have often been excluded from mainstream education, employment and housing. In the UK they have the same opportunities as anyone else.

A large number of Roma from Slovakia have settled in a nearby city. The issues of anti social behaviour, similar to your description, including on street violence involving large numbers has led to the police taking over a house in the area as a base. House prices have fallen, and this was a cheap area to begin with. The council have tried to get the new residents on board re their lifestyle, but the flytipping, rubbish dumping and noisy gatherings continue.

David Blunkett, who at one time was MP for the area, expressed concerns about the impact on the area many years ago, the issues have continued. People with choices are rarely affected in this way, but the lives of long term residents in some areas have been greatly impacted. If people in power had to live in similar conditions, perhaps they’d understand why those affected are looking for alternatives.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/deportation-flights-illegal-immigrants/

I know about people smuggling. Believe me, I am well aware of what happens. People who are smuggled here are indeed often sold a lie, exploited by traffickers and have little to no quality of life in the UK.

My concern is with those people and their safety, rather than how they might 'burden' the state (which they don't).

I hope you realise that only about 0.6% of our population are here to seek asylum.

There is no such thing as a 'bogus' refugee. Everyone has the right to claim asylum and stay in their country of choice while their claim is processed. It doesn't matter how they came here.

Wanting the best outcome possible for yourself and your family is not a crime and they have every right to travel to the UK, sorry.

@Guinessandafire Have you just cut and pasted this nonsense from a Reform propaganda site?

It's not "nonsense", these are/were real jobs.

It seems you don't want a reasoned discussion, so byeeee.🙂

The UK does not accept an 'unfair' amount of asylum seekers.
We are obligated to protect asylum seekers under international law.
We accept roughly 1% of the world's refugees.
Asylum seekers make up about 0.6% of our population.

They are not a burden to the state, this is a myth.
They have every right to come here.

Still waiting for someone to provide a reputable source (or any source for that matter) about lawyers protecting rapists from deportation.

And it’s interesting that most of the complaints about immigrants on this thread have been about (particular) Eastern European communities.

As I mentioned upthread, I live in an area with large syrian and yemeni communities and one of my neighbours is a small mosque. And it’s something that makes us feel very safe where we are. They are very respectful communities.

There have been meetings with Police, council, community leaders and the like. Things quieten down, the rubbish gets cleared. Then it all starts again. Yes, community leaders for the Romanian side say that it's their culture and the local Police seem scared they will be accused of racism. Though why anyone would want to live in such a mess and have no pride in where they live beats me.

My friends are in their 70s, one is in poor health. They feel beaten down by it all. They just want to live out their retirement in peace and harmony in the area they have lived all their lives but now they just want out. The younger residents fear reprisals if they complain.

Can't you understand why people experiencing this might vote for Reform? They don't know that Reform will change anything. They just know that nothing has changed under Labour or the Conservatives so why not let someone else have a go. When you feel that the country you grew up in has changed out of recognition so quickly and seemingly to people who have arrived relatively recently and you feel you haven't been given a say, that's when you get results like last Thursday.

The shortage of UK doctors is literally an argument for why immigration is a godsend, people coming here from abroad are FILLING labour shortages.

The approximate cost of processing an asylum claim in the UK is around £12,000 per individual but that is not the sole cost.
The UK's asylum system is estimated to have cost around £5.4 billion in the 2023/24 financial year. This includes costs like accommodation, support, and processing.
The Home Office also publishes information on the cost of supporting asylum seekers while their claims are being processed, including the cost of accommodation in hotels.

You don't think this is a "burden on the State" really?

Yes, but we need immigration appropriate to our skill shortages.

Thank you. This is exactly what I mean. People living in their leafy suburbs have no idea how life has changed for so many.

I know I'm repeating myself but I think it's important to reiterate this as much as possible:

There is no such thing as a 'bogus' asylum seeker. Anyone can claim asylum in their country of choice.

People seeking asylum are allowed to travel to their country of choice. This is international law. There could be all sorts of reasons why they'd choose the UK, and it literally doesn't matter.

Asylum seekers only make up about 0.6% of our population anyway, so the idea that they are burdening the state is nonsense.

People who try to live in the UK illegally (undocumented) face extreme risks, cannot legally work (so are vulnerable to slavery and exploitation), cannot access free healthcare or benefits and generally have poor quality of life.

Those people are not burdening the state either.

I certainly do not hold the view that people from troubled countries are 'backwards'. On the contrary, I see them as normal men and women like myself, with previously normal lives, who have been forcibly displaced.

I know that they wear clothes and own mobile phones. Unlike you, I don't believe this means they are not in need (or worthy) of our help.

Maybe you should go and volunteer in Calais for a bit.

Ah-ha the Romanians again - or should I say the Roma?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-30041468.html

We do. Ask the hospitality, health/care, engineering and tech sectors how they would survive right now without international talent.