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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

1000 replies

Peasnbeans · 02/05/2025 23:01

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
MrsSkylerWhite · 03/05/2025 14:35

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 14:32

Making fun of someone over their looks is a real cheap shot 😦

I wouldn’t mind being compared to Emma Thompson …..

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/05/2025 14:36

steff13 · 02/05/2025 23:37

There was a thread about it this morning. I was under the impression "Reform" was a party, not a person, though.

It is a limited company, owned by Farage.

Locutus2000 · 03/05/2025 14:37

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 10:52

Aaaaarrrggghhh ! 😮

Me every morning these days.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/05/2025 14:39

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/05/2025 14:36

It is a limited company, owned by Farage.

Quite.

JHound · 03/05/2025 14:40

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 14:34

There's levels to the misogyny game and the British overall aren't even close to being at the top... If you think they are even slightly equivalent, you've led a very sheltered life.

I really don’t think we are that much different in terms of ideas around patriarchy, male leadership and male related things being viewed as higher status.

Look at Joey Barton’s constant misogynist rants about female presenters and how many any in comments vehemently agreeing.

And we can talk about who likes Tate (and why) but Tate is also British, spent his formative years here and is a product of our society.

And as I said while more muslim men liked him, muslim women, of the same culture overwhelmingly did not like him. It’s not as simplistic as you are making it out to be.

Locutus2000 · 03/05/2025 14:42

thepariscrimefiles · 03/05/2025 11:41

You are obviously positioning yourself as one of the 'good' immigrants, but a lot of Reform voters are hostile to all non-white immigration from overseas, skilled or not. Would you be OK with anti-immigration laws that led to your deportation?

A lot of Reform politicians and those who elect them are hostile to all non-white, full stop.

Symond · 03/05/2025 14:43

That’s close enough to a million in 1 year. Compound over 5 years and it absolutely is ‘millions and millions’.

See my post above. In June 2023 18% of the England and Wales was born overseas so I would think that is 20% now.

SmegmaCausesBV · 03/05/2025 14:43

I did not vote Reform. However they have been super clear on:
Trans issues
Potholes
No VAT on education
Not taking PIP or £ from pensioners
Wanting to make Uni 2yrs and reduce student debt by taking off interest

To me, this is what people are seeing as "sensible" policy over the trans rubbish the BBC have been peddling for weeks.

JHound · 03/05/2025 14:46

Locutus2000 · 03/05/2025 14:42

A lot of Reform politicians and those who elect them are hostile to all non-white, full stop.

Which is my observation whenever I have engaged with Reform supporters online. They seem to use “immigrant” and “non-white” interchangeably.

BundleBoogie · 03/05/2025 14:51

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 12:35

I assumed you were trying to appear as a reasonably serious person but your last two posts are blowing that apart.

So tell me why I’m wrong?

Or do you have to resort to ad hominem because you can’t.

BumbleBeegu · 03/05/2025 14:52

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 14:32

Making fun of someone over their looks is a real cheap shot 😦

Where did I make fun? It was a literal observation! Hard to not notice it.

Symond · 03/05/2025 14:53

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 12:45

I don't quite know where to start with this.

If asylum seekers have been forced to move from 'safe' country to country it is out of desperation and necessity, because nothing has been provided for them there.

Asylum seekers do not come here with the expectation of benefits, they are fleeing from war or persecution, and often know absolutely nothing about the UK welfare system when they arrive.

Once they're here, if they are not detained, they live in poverty on £7 a day without the possibility of employment while their claim for asylum is processed (this can take years).

Where is your source for the lawyers protecting rapists.

Have you listened to “To Catch a Scorpion” on the BBC? Suggest you do, and lots of other research on this.

There is no doubt there are legit refugees, I’m not debating that. If you think they are all coming to the UK because they don’t receive adequate provision in other EU countries en route - you’re wrong.

People smuggling is bigger business than drugs. There is an actual marketing and propaganda machine to get them here - because smuggling = cash for smugglers. So irrespective of what benefits the UK does or and doesn’t provide, it is absolutely the destination of choice for a high percentage. That ranges from being sold a lie by these smugglers, to actually thinking it’s a better option, to already having family made it here, and everything in between.

hattie43 · 03/05/2025 14:58

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 14:32

Making fun of someone over their looks is a real cheap shot 😦

The left are nasty , we know that .

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 15:16

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/05/2025 14:36

It is a limited company, owned by Farage.

Not exactly

Reform UK is now owned by a new non-profit company, Reform 2025 Ltd, according to Companies House filings. Nigel Farage, the former owner, and Zia Yusuf are the directors of Reform 2025 Ltd. This move is part of a restructuring to transfer ownership to the party's members, with no shareholders and limited by guarantee.

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 15:22

BundleBoogie · 03/05/2025 14:51

So tell me why I’m wrong?

Or do you have to resort to ad hominem because you can’t.

^

Tell it to the parents of the dead babies.

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 15:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 15:30

AndImBrit · 03/05/2025 07:38

Also I’m not a Reform voter, but I’ve just read their manifesto/contract again - and it is eminently sensible. Many of their policies would work a lot better than those Labour are currently imposing.

Because you don’t like Farage, doesn’t mean that the broader party doesn’t have some good ideas. And if you can’t appreciate why people want to vote for that, I actually think you are part of the problem - not the people voting Reform.

And to reiterate, I have never and will never vote Reform. I just understand that some people are desperate for any sort of change.

Yup.

"Change" was what people wanted last time so they took Labour at their word and voted for them and look what they got. 😮

I've been on the doorstep for Reform and the words we heard repeated were "immigration", "Winter Fuel Payments", "PIP". So not many Happy Bunnies out there...😒
Our local branch started in an upstairs bar of a pub last year, Now we take over the whole pub !
It was the same all over UK I was told.

Thank goodness there were plenty of Council Elections around and even a by-Election so these unhappy folks could vent their spleens. And they certainly did that alright !

Livelovebehappy · 03/05/2025 15:35

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/05/2025 14:30

Your English isn’t up to much, tbh.

Ha, you're right. Can speak it and write it fluently. But not so good on a phone keyboard I'm afraid... cringed a bit when I read it back ...

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 15:44

JHound · 03/05/2025 14:46

Which is my observation whenever I have engaged with Reform supporters online. They seem to use “immigrant” and “non-white” interchangeably.

I don't condone "hostility" or violence but I think this is actually an important point. I think this is an area where people talk past each other and it's important for policy.

In 1991 the British population was 95% white and they didn't even bother asking the question before that. That's a little over 30 years ago, only one generation.

I often see quite frustrating exchanges where people will say "immigrants are changing the culture, I feel like a foreigner in my own city when I get the bus, no-one is speaking English" etc. And then someone will argue about how they actually are second-generation so they don't count, or they were granted asylum so they're legally here so they don't count, or they acquired British citizenship so they don't count, or they went to school here so they don't count, etc.

But the core issue is that there was a huge amount of demographic change in a very, very short period of time (culturally speaking) - in some local areas the effect is even more than at the national level. At a very coarse level, everyone who lives here who isn't white has a relatively recent migration history, even if it's 1-2 generations back. And it's the overall sheer size and suddenness of the demographic shift OVERALL, which was made up of all sorts of visa routes and other pathways over the last 30 years, that people are reacting to. The white British population (excluding other white migrants) as of the 2021 census is 75%. It dropped 20 percentage points in 30 years.

You can have every sympathy in the world for the individuals who choose to come here including the vast majority who came here under legal routes - but if you want to engage with the core issue, you need to acknowledge the scale of the demographic shift as a whole, and acknowledge the cultural implications of it rather than argue about technicalities.

Moveanymountain · 03/05/2025 15:47

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:08

Sorry, what do you mean by 'illegals'? People seeking asylum?

You do realise that asylum seekers are banned from working in the UK and their families provided with £7 a day to live on by the government? Housed in temporary accommodation that is often overcrowded and vulnerable to hate crime as we saw last summer?

People fleeing war or persecution have the right to seek asylum in other countries. The UK government actually makes this an extremely difficult process.

If you seriously believe 'illegal migrants' are receiving better services and housing than UK citizens, you have been brainwashed by the right. Feel free to fact check everything I said.

C’mon now - you can’t seriously believe that everyone coming over the channel in small boats are fleeing persecution - why do so many of them throw away their ID papers or flee the minute they hit the beach - clearly they don’t want to seek asylum or else they’d wait to be seen to. And how many of these young men have a criminal background? There are proven accounts of migrants who have raped and murdered in the UK and can’t be deported because it’s not safe for them to go back to their home country! That is an affront to their victims and their victims’ families.

And £7 a day plus hotel costs, health care etc is still a lot of money when there are 100s of thousands of people to support.

Also - nearly 2 billion people live in areas of war/conflict so where do we say we’ve reached our limit as to how many we can take/support? A million, 5 million, the whole 2 billion?

Many migrants coming from areas of conflict bring their hatred for each other with them - so we end up with ghettos and tribal/gang conflict in the UK.

I was in Australia for their Open once and there were massive running battles in the streets between young Serbs and Croats who had claimed asylum in Australia because of the Yugoslav wars. There’s a reason why the rich Arab states don’t take their fair share of asylum seekers.

I really do feel for people who are genuinely fleeing conflict, particularly women and girls, but the UK cannot save the world.

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 15:50

For what it's worth, the Reform party doesn't stand for "remigration" - i.e. encouraging (with carrots and/or sticks) non-white people to move back to their homelands including people born here or 2nd/3rd-generation.

This is a policy that parties like the AfD do support, as does Trump.

Reform is split on the issue and kicked out Rupert Lowe over it.

I think it would be extremely difficult to untangle in practice - based on my own circumstances and mixed heritage I know it's impossible even for "simple" cases. They might be able to manage some combination of cutting incoming flows and visa renewals/ILR applications, deporting actual criminals, and maybe some financially-sweetened voluntary migrations at the absolute most.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 03/05/2025 15:55

SmegmaCausesBV · 03/05/2025 14:43

I did not vote Reform. However they have been super clear on:
Trans issues
Potholes
No VAT on education
Not taking PIP or £ from pensioners
Wanting to make Uni 2yrs and reduce student debt by taking off interest

To me, this is what people are seeing as "sensible" policy over the trans rubbish the BBC have been peddling for weeks.

Yes but no so hot on how they will pay for everything they want to implement, as they say the devil is in the detail

Symond · 03/05/2025 16:13

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 15:44

I don't condone "hostility" or violence but I think this is actually an important point. I think this is an area where people talk past each other and it's important for policy.

In 1991 the British population was 95% white and they didn't even bother asking the question before that. That's a little over 30 years ago, only one generation.

I often see quite frustrating exchanges where people will say "immigrants are changing the culture, I feel like a foreigner in my own city when I get the bus, no-one is speaking English" etc. And then someone will argue about how they actually are second-generation so they don't count, or they were granted asylum so they're legally here so they don't count, or they acquired British citizenship so they don't count, or they went to school here so they don't count, etc.

But the core issue is that there was a huge amount of demographic change in a very, very short period of time (culturally speaking) - in some local areas the effect is even more than at the national level. At a very coarse level, everyone who lives here who isn't white has a relatively recent migration history, even if it's 1-2 generations back. And it's the overall sheer size and suddenness of the demographic shift OVERALL, which was made up of all sorts of visa routes and other pathways over the last 30 years, that people are reacting to. The white British population (excluding other white migrants) as of the 2021 census is 75%. It dropped 20 percentage points in 30 years.

You can have every sympathy in the world for the individuals who choose to come here including the vast majority who came here under legal routes - but if you want to engage with the core issue, you need to acknowledge the scale of the demographic shift as a whole, and acknowledge the cultural implications of it rather than argue about technicalities.

This is an entirely sensible post and debate.

Idontsweat · 03/05/2025 16:14

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 15:50

For what it's worth, the Reform party doesn't stand for "remigration" - i.e. encouraging (with carrots and/or sticks) non-white people to move back to their homelands including people born here or 2nd/3rd-generation.

This is a policy that parties like the AfD do support, as does Trump.

Reform is split on the issue and kicked out Rupert Lowe over it.

I think it would be extremely difficult to untangle in practice - based on my own circumstances and mixed heritage I know it's impossible even for "simple" cases. They might be able to manage some combination of cutting incoming flows and visa renewals/ILR applications, deporting actual criminals, and maybe some financially-sweetened voluntary migrations at the absolute most.

I do not believe Trump is for "remigration". However he is all for deporting illegal migrants and all countries should be and most countries are. But with millions of people and possibly hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in countries like USA and UK it's difficult to find all the illegal immigrants and deport them so governments have given up and they can't be arsed. Good on Trump for trying to protect his citizens and their borders. Even third world countries deport illegal migrants, but the lefties choose to single out Trump so that they can do what they like doing best-name calling.

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