Page 12 | AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

Peasnbeans · 2025-05-02T22:01:08+00:00

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist. If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights? I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out! And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

TheWiseGoose · 03/05/2025 09:35

randomchap · 03/05/2025 00:13

They're just another populist party, promoting simple solutions to complex problems. Solutions that won't actually work.

They have realised that there is a significant proportion of the UK population who have failed at life. People with poor education, dead end jobs, and limited means.

They are aggressively targeting these people, telling them that it's not their fault. It's the immigrants, the woke, the lgbtq, who are the cause of their misfortune.

With the fptp system, if you can get these people to vote for you then you may be able to get power.

The cynical part of me thinks that they will be delighted to get so many councils under Reform control. Not so that they can try to improve people's lives, but so that they can do massive damage. Damage that they can say is the fault of the Labour government.

In my area one of their candidates promised to fix all potholes, and go back to weekly bin collections. When they fail in this, they will simply blame central government, and tell their acolytes that voting in Reform in the GE will fix it. It's obvious but very hard to counter.

For a second I thought you're describing Labour!

azu · 03/05/2025 09:37

In my area the swing to Reform was at a huge cost to Conservatives, Labour and Independent votes were the same, Green gained slightly and Lib Dem gained massively at the same percentage as Reform.
No overall control.
I'm no political analyst but I think for those of us concerned about the swing to the extreme right of the spectrum, granular level analysis can show more of a complete picture. Here, the areas where Reform got in had been Tory (in recent years! Labour/Lib Dem before that) and are the areas most likely to (still!) feel forgotten by successive Westminster governments, with good reason.

Farage and Trump are both demagogues. We need more (school age) political education, so people are voting from an informed place. Want to get caught up in demagogy, and vote for its purveyors? Aware of the established political tactics? Fine. Being duped by it, not fine.

Dontletthebedbugsbite2 · 03/05/2025 09:37

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:32

UK immigration laws are extremely strict. You cannot stay here or work here (or use the health system) unless you have a valid visa or are granted asylum. Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. Illegal immigrants CANNOT access welfare services or NHS treatment.

So that means only people living here legitimately (and contributing to the economy) are using the NHS. I don't understand what the issue is? These people are paying taxes and NI, just like you.

The UK's population is ageing. Migrant workers help to boost our working-age population and support public services. Removing them would literally be a disaster for us.

When you look at UK immigration statistics, maybe bare in mind that one of the top three countries people are coming from is Australia. Somehow I bet it's not them you have an issue with.

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Asylum seekers can use the NHS. They are also screened for infectious diseases when they arrive (necessary for public safety of course but also expensive) they also see dentists, social workers, housing officers (who collects them & brings them to a hotel?) Interpreters are used to communicate, if there are children they are settled into local schools. Asylum seekers do use the NHS. If someone is ill in this country and goes to hospital they will be seen and treated.

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:39

localnotail · 03/05/2025 09:33

This is him sitting in London voting on various issues, which is his job and what he is being paid for. How many times he met people in his constituency and how many local MP surgeries he attended?

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I can't answer that question because he is not my MP.

However, you'll notice he did vote to rescind the Winter Fuel Payment Bill.

And regarding "Surgeries" there seems to be a security issue -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1l47e86r39o

MojoMoon · 03/05/2025 09:39

localnotail · 03/05/2025 09:33

This is him sitting in London voting on various issues, which is his job and what he is being paid for. How many times he met people in his constituency and how many local MP surgeries he attended?

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Data from the MPs’ register of interests shows that Farage has registered an estimated 800 hours of work since entering parliament, while also carrying out his job as leader of the Reform party.

His paid social media work, articles for the Telegraph, job as a brand ambassador for a gold company, speeches and GB News presenting role work out at about 22 hours a week in additional employment since early July.

Farage has made at least nine trips abroad, including eight to the US, since he was elected MP for Clacton in Essex last July, with many of them either funded by donors or undertaken for paid employment such as speeches.

TammyJones · 03/05/2025 09:41

OutandAboutMum1821 · 03/05/2025 09:13

So all of my extended family are die hard Labour voters, always have been. My Step-Dad was even a Labour councillor, so all I knew growing up was my family supporting his own campaign. Massive Tony Blair fans, etc.

However, even my Mum and sister, who will never have any criticism of Labour, are absolutely disgusted by their recent moves re. the winter fuel allowance and disabled people. They can’t get their heads around it, ‘no, these are not Labour policies’. My Mum is proudly working class, and absolutely expects Labour to fund our public services and basically make life more pleasant for poor people and go after the super rich.

I haven’t caught up with yet about how they voted, but should they defect to Reform now/in the future then that would really show up how for me how badly Labour have let them down.

Yep.

MojoMoon · 03/05/2025 09:41

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:39

I can't answer that question because he is not my MP.

However, you'll notice he did vote to rescind the Winter Fuel Payment Bill.

And regarding "Surgeries" there seems to be a security issue -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1l47e86r39o

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That BBC story undemines your point actually.

Farage claimed the Speakers Office told him not to run constituency surgeries.

The Speakers Office said that was not true and he had never been advised not to run surgeries.

So he had made it up.

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:42

@MojoMoon This is 5 months old, so more trips will have been added to the list

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/17/keir-starmer-time-abroad-prime-minister

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 09:43

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:32

UK immigration laws are extremely strict. You cannot stay here or work here (or use the health system) unless you have a valid visa or are granted asylum. Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. Illegal immigrants CANNOT access welfare services or NHS treatment.

So that means only people living here legitimately (and contributing to the economy) are using the NHS. I don't understand what the issue is? These people are paying taxes and NI, just like you.

The UK's population is ageing. Migrant workers help to boost our working-age population and support public services. Removing them would literally be a disaster for us.

When you look at UK immigration statistics, maybe bare in mind that one of the top three countries people are coming from is Australia. Somehow I bet it's not them you have an issue with.

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I am an immigrant (skilled worker). I'm a Boriswaver even! When I was considering coming here I was on various forums where people discussed different countries they could migrate to.

The British system was widely considered one of the easiest particularly since 2020 and if you had any connections who could sponsor you (keep in mind there is NO labour market test, employers are entirely free to just hire someone in their extended network often from their home country without advertising locally at all).

Rob Jenrick took steps in his time as immigration minister to set the contribution thresholds for NHS etc to actually reflect the measured load on the system (this was in 2023/24!! until then it was below actual usage) and minimum salaries to a "net contributor" level. The current Labour government has also taken steps to withdraw sponsorship licences from companies that have no business sponsoring anyone (kebab shops, corner stores, fake care agencies etc).

Until these things happened it was a free-for-all and I'm only talking about the work visa routes which everyone always says they're okay with. Not even touching family and student visas let alone asylum pathways.

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:45

Dontletthebedbugsbite2 · 03/05/2025 09:37

Asylum seekers can use the NHS. They are also screened for infectious diseases when they arrive (necessary for public safety of course but also expensive) they also see dentists, social workers, housing officers (who collects them & brings them to a hotel?) Interpreters are used to communicate, if there are children they are settled into local schools. Asylum seekers do use the NHS. If someone is ill in this country and goes to hospital they will be seen and treated.

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I wasn't talking about asylum seekers.

I certainly hope that asylum seekers are receiving free health care, if they didn't that would be in breach of their human rights.

The UK is obligated to accept refugees and allow people to claim asylum. This is international law.

marshmallowmix · 03/05/2025 09:46

MojoMoon · 03/05/2025 09:35

Go on then, name the development and it will be very easy to confirm if this really was luxury social housing or not.

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Wow goady or what @MojoMoon

I know exactly what you mean @OneAmberFinch similar near me.

A family from the Middle East based on their dress are being housed in a flat which costs upwards of £2.5k per month to rent in the private sector …

Most working families here can’t afford that property with 2 wages and they have it for free …of course tensions are running high. It beggars belief how that is okay.

You can bet your bottom dollar if we went to those countries the red carpet wouldn’t be rolled out…it is staggering when we have homeless brits …

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:50

@MojoMoon That BBC story undemines your point actually.

I disagree.

No-one knows what was said but there seems to be a misunderstanding.and Fargage deferred to the Speaker.

This is what the speaker actually said - The Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle responded that he held regular surgeries with his Chorley constituents and said: "I always say that if you are going to hold constituency surgeries make sure you take advice from the Parliamentary Security Department - and do so safely."

Labour MPs have actually stopped holding surgeries.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14063555/labour-mps-surgeries-budget-policies.html

MojoMoon · 03/05/2025 09:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Illjusthavethebreadsticks · 03/05/2025 09:51

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:22

It is a largely immigrant workforce that is keeping the NHS afloat.

People coming over in boats don’t work for the NHS

Livelovebehappy · 03/05/2025 09:53

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:59

I'm struggling to imagine how those 'potential workers' who have been off work for years due to disability will be able to cope with 12 hour shifts in A&E

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Not everyone on disability had physical disabilities, many MH issues, hence the review. And many dont have to do 12 hour shifts. Lots of flexible working hours in NHS.

TranceNation · 03/05/2025 09:54

OutandAboutMum1821 · 03/05/2025 09:33

My DH couldn’t agree more. He has completely opted out of voting at all, he thinks all politicians are a bunch of liars, and morally people he would want nothing to do with IRL.

Do you ever think it is a worry though if increasing numbers do entirely opt out? It’s certainly up to the individual, I just worry that people like you and my DH still have the same right to heard…

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Yeah it is regrettable that people like myself have stepped back from politics. I think we all deserve to have our opinion and no one's opinion is more valid than the other. We all walk in different shoes at the end of the day and our daily lives bring different priorities for the way we would vote. But, the media and social media inparticular have made politics really ugly today. I remember when people used to keep their politics to themselves. It would have been better if it stayed that way. Certainly less divisive.

FedupofArsenalgame · 03/05/2025 09:55

FruityCider · 03/05/2025 07:10

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2024/jun/14/he-was-a-deeply-unembarrassed-racist-nigel-farage-by-those-who-have-known-him

There might not be anything racist about wanting to limit immigration, but demonising migrants and whipping up fear is. What sort of rhetoric do you think led to people attempting to set fire to hotels where some asylum seekers were staying.

We need immigration. It's vital. Soon more than ever as the birth rate is shrinking. Sensible limits? Sure. Speedy processing of asylum claims? Yes. Farage's hateful, divisive views? No thank you.

I live and work right in the heart of an area that would give Farage a heart attack given how full of immigration and asylum seekers it is. Guess what - everyone rubs along fine.

Do they actually " rub along fine" though? Or is it divided. ? I have Bengali colleagues from Tower Hamlets. None of the women there seem to have non Bengali friends. Many of the kids are not allowed to go and play art their white counterparts houses, instead spending all of their time outside school with " cousins" etc.

Don't see how this helps integration ( bear in mine these are not first for generation immigrants)

Id imagine if you were one of the few white kids in the area it would be pretty lonely

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/05/2025 09:57

OneAmberFinch · 03/05/2025 09:30

People talk past one another on this issue and use terms in colloquial ways.

I walked through a beautiful housing development the other day in a very posh area of London that I could never in a million years afford despite having a HHI of £250k+. Clean, safe, amazing facilities, private gated gardens etc.

It was the middle of a weekday and I saw a woman, maybe Somali? in a hijab, carrying in Aldi bags and talking to her son? aged in his 20s/30s? who was sitting on the steps.

Now maybe this woman's husband was a hedge fund manager and they paid for that house with his bonuses but let's be honest, it was a new development and this was almost certainly a social housing case.

I don't know anything about their situation. They could be recent refugees, immigrants from a few years ago, heck they could be second generation and born here. But either way my taxes are going to give them this life which is way beyond charity and is a luxury I can't afford for me and my children, and the only reason their family is in the country at all is because of immigration from at some point in the last 10/20/50 years.

Now I don't post on Facebook. I'm an immigrant myself, on a skilled worker visa. But how is it hard to understand that it's not a myth that a lot of resources DO go to support immigrants, and that the UK's current system is very bad at selecting for immigrants who will be self-supporting, and that people can use the evidence of their own eyes to see it?

Sophistry about definitions of "illegals" is irrelevant when the question isn't "are these people technically here via a legal route" but "should that route exist?"

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There is nothing to stop anyone buying a 5 bedroom house and renting it out privately so long as the Landlord checks the tenant has the right to be here. There is a house like that on my road. Wearing a hijab or being Somali doesn't mean you arrived illegally in a small boat. Neither the Government or the Council hands out houses on arrival. You have no idea if members of that family were working or in receipt of benefits (benefits they would only be able to claim if they had been granted asylum).

Symond · 03/05/2025 09:57

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:32

UK immigration laws are extremely strict. You cannot stay here or work here (or use the health system) unless you have a valid visa or are granted asylum. Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. Illegal immigrants CANNOT access welfare services or NHS treatment.

So that means only people living here legitimately (and contributing to the economy) are using the NHS. I don't understand what the issue is? These people are paying taxes and NI, just like you.

The UK's population is ageing. Migrant workers help to boost our working-age population and support public services. Removing them would literally be a disaster for us.

When you look at UK immigration statistics, maybe bare in mind that one of the top three countries people are coming from is Australia. Somehow I bet it's not them you have an issue with.

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1.5m unemployed, 11m economically inactive - so what is the right level of net migration and for what type of jobs ie. are we keeping wages too low by importing labour
to be a net positive contributor to the economy (not just pay tax) you need to earn a quite a high salary. When considered over a small number of years, imported labour accessing NHS and all other public services is 💯 a cost
the broader issues around housing, road infrastructure etc. that is collapsing

It’s not nearly as simple as you’ve described it.

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/05/2025 09:58

Illjusthavethebreadsticks · 03/05/2025 09:51

People coming over in boats don’t work for the NHS

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They might do once they have been granted asylum and the right to stay here.

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:59

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:32

UK immigration laws are extremely strict. You cannot stay here or work here (or use the health system) unless you have a valid visa or are granted asylum. Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. Illegal immigrants CANNOT access welfare services or NHS treatment.

So that means only people living here legitimately (and contributing to the economy) are using the NHS. I don't understand what the issue is? These people are paying taxes and NI, just like you.

The UK's population is ageing. Migrant workers help to boost our working-age population and support public services. Removing them would literally be a disaster for us.

When you look at UK immigration statistics, maybe bare in mind that one of the top three countries people are coming from is Australia. Somehow I bet it's not them you have an issue with.

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@OneAmberFinch "Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. "

So where are the plane loads of failed asylum seekers being returned to wherever they come from? 🙄

thepariscrimefiles · 03/05/2025 10:00

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:08

Wow, people make comments like this and then wonder why they're accused of racism.

Why on earth would an international workforce be crap. A doctor is a doctor whether they're from Yorkshire or overseas.

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Many doctors from overseas were trained in the UK. The UK higher education sector would collapse without international student fees subsidising UK students whose fees, although high, do not fully cover the costs of their university education.

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/05/2025 10:02

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:59

@OneAmberFinch "Less than half of asylum seekers are granted asylum in the UK. "

So where are the plane loads of failed asylum seekers being returned to wherever they come from? 🙄

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-office-smashes-targets-with-mass-surge-in-migrant-removals

First hit on a quick Google.

Home Office smashes targets with mass surge in migrant removals

Nearly 19,000 foreign criminals and people with no right to be in the UK have now been removed since the government took office.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-office-smashes-targets-with-mass-surge-in-migrant-removals

TheGreyQuail · 03/05/2025 10:03

Moveanymountain · 03/05/2025 04:16

Because people cannot stomach 500+ “migrants” coming to the UK illegally every day but getting food, housing, health care etc while citizens pay more and more tax for poorer services.

i know this is going to come across as a racist, hateful post but we are a small island and we cannot just keep endlessly shelling out for illegals.

that’s why right wing groups are gaining all over Europe .

Totally with this, it is a small island, how much more cut backs to services do we actually need? Lack of affordable housing, taxes rising, cost of living to mention a few.
There is less and less being spread between too many.
Blast me I really don't give a shit, and no I don't vote because none of the parties ever speak remotely for me as an individual.

12doublerolls · 03/05/2025 10:04

Reform all the way! If I’m racist for saying that then so be it.