Page 10 | AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

Peasnbeans · 2025-05-02T22:01:08+00:00

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist. If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights? I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out! And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

FedupofArsenalgame · 03/05/2025 08:54

BoldBlueZebra · 03/05/2025 05:55

for the first time I did not vote- I can’t vote for these people they’re idiots.

I’m not sure people are voting for reform per se I think it’s more not voting for the usual candidates and a lack of alternatives. If there were a more moderate candidate who was blending the populist rhetoric with a moderate - and plausible scenario to address key issues, people would vote for that. But reform have seen a gap in the market and are exploiting that picking up the voters who are disenfranchised from the traditional parties.

But the writing is on the wall now people want change and whoever will give them that will get the vote - ignore that at your peril.

I agree totally. Not that people want Reform ( although I don't know about any of their councillors) but the DONT want Labour or Tories

AndImBrit · 03/05/2025 08:54

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 07:56

It is absolutely reasonable for people in difficult circumstances to want a change for the better.

It is absolute idiocy to want "any sort of change." What if it's a change for the worst?

See: Brexit

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If you believe your position can’t get any worse, then any change is a chance for better.

And there have been some upsides to Brexit. I also imagine the majority of those voting Reform aren’t those that have lost jobs as a result of Brexit, nor are they worried that their travel rights are curtailed given it’s not impacted their week abroad a year IF they can afford it.

Livelovebehappy · 03/05/2025 08:55

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:22

It is a largely immigrant workforce that is keeping the NHS afloat.

Well the review on disability and benefits should sort that out. One of the very few things I applaud labour on. Lots of potential workers there once they're put back to work.

taxguru · 03/05/2025 08:55

luckylavender · 03/05/2025 08:54

You can criticise Labour all you want and they certainly have made mistakes. But it's ridiculous to think that they could undo 14 years of Tory failure in 10 months.

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But they've managed to make things WORSE in 10 months. Their whole ethos was about economic growth which Reeves has killed with her insane NIC hikes.

lljkk · 03/05/2025 08:56

About what happens when you find someone at high risk of drowning at sea. In current world where law matters little so truly "only a norm" but it's a huge tradition among mariners that they help each other out no matter what. NOBODY should be left to drown.

Idea that UK picks up floaters in English channel & returns to France: this takes formal agreement. So if Uk coast guard has the formal right to do that then France coast guard should have the right to pick them up & drop them off in UK. France would naturally insist on that right. And why shouldn't they, especially as the travellers may well lie about their launching point.

Do we want France to have right to pick them up & take them to UK shores?
Think !!

Nominative · 03/05/2025 08:56

HellsBalls · 03/05/2025 08:40

To want limited immigration is not racist.
People voting Reform can see the difference between NHS workers and illegal immigrants.

They can also see that importing tens of thousands of IT workers will lower the salaries for IT. These guys are NOT skilled IT workers on the whole, it will be one good guy to four inexperienced guys.
Repeat against a whole raft of occupations. Race to the bottom.

The trouble is that people voting Reform often cannot see the difference between illegal immigrants and refugees, and regularly conflate the two.

MrsMappFlint · 03/05/2025 08:56

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:22

It is a largely immigrant workforce that is keeping the NHS afloat.

But is that because more and more people are using the health system?

It's a bit of a silly argument isn't it: over the past few years, immigration has soared-that means more people use the NHS-that means more workers-some of them immigrants-now work in the NHS in order to service the growing number of immigrants who use it.

If we didn't have as much immigration, we wouldn't need to employ as many immigrants in the NHS.

It's not rocket science, even for the achingly right on to understand-although maybe it is as it seems you can feed them any old shite about how progressive and intelligent they are and how everyone who disagrees with them is stupid. They swallow it down happily, enjoying the afterglow!

I vote Reform. I'm not ashamed of it.

Shame was the big false barrier that people were made to feel for even admitting this. Now it seems that barrier has fallen, although the hard of thinking on the far left still forlornly try to push this idea.

Yesterday shows that no-one need feel ashamed of supporting Reform and that will make a bloody big difference. Indeed, it already has. Hoo-fucking-ray!

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/05/2025 08:57

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Definitely a racist then.

bluesinthenight · 03/05/2025 08:57

steff13 · 02/05/2025 23:37

There was a thread about it this morning. I was under the impression "Reform" was a party, not a person, though.

Oh, I think it is a person. If NF (good initials for him) disappeared tomorrow do you think Reform would hold as much sway as it does right now? For a start they wouldn't get the airtime that he has been afforded. In my mind the BBC and other media outlets gave him a platform from which to propagandise. No other fringe party has had that kind of exposure. He was on a TV show that is loved by millions and was able to get across that he is a likeable (to some) family man. He even had his own radio show at one point. The media helped to build his media profile and that has led to his "success".

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 08:58

AndImBrit · 03/05/2025 08:54

If you believe your position can’t get any worse, then any change is a chance for better.

And there have been some upsides to Brexit. I also imagine the majority of those voting Reform aren’t those that have lost jobs as a result of Brexit, nor are they worried that their travel rights are curtailed given it’s not impacted their week abroad a year IF they can afford it.

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But your position can get worse. You can have even less money, have less chance of a job, have worse public facilities...

Brexit has made the whole country undeniably and measurably poorer. That affects everyone, not just international commodity traders or sunseeker pensioners

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 08:59

Livelovebehappy · 03/05/2025 08:55

Well the review on disability and benefits should sort that out. One of the very few things I applaud labour on. Lots of potential workers there once they're put back to work.

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I'm struggling to imagine how those 'potential workers' who have been off work for years due to disability will be able to cope with 12 hour shifts in A&E

Winter2020 · 03/05/2025 09:01

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 08:43

Reform UK wants to pick up migrants intercepted at sea and return them to France

How is this a problem?

At the moment migrants are picked up and taken to UK, so why not return them to where they came from? If it's safe to take them to UK then it must be safe to take them back to France, surely?
France is a "safe country", as the last time I read the news there wasn't a Coup d' Etat or a Civil War in progress

And why are they even crossing in the first place? UK have bunged France £millions to stop launches. That isn't working obviously.

And I'm still waiting to be told when & where Ben Habib said this Reforms Ben Habib suggested putting them into more robust dinghies, whilst at sea and if they scupper this boat, let them drown. 🤔

Edited

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Here you go

It took all of searching for "Ben Habib and dingies" in you tube. 7:40 HTH.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/7Ik-WDwdf1g?si=rZ79KF1OJuNb-GXd

thepariscrimefiles · 03/05/2025 09:01

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That sounds pretty racist. Are you one of those people who refuse treatment if the doctor isn't white British?

Caerulea · 03/05/2025 09:02

randomchap · 03/05/2025 00:13

They're just another populist party, promoting simple solutions to complex problems. Solutions that won't actually work.

They have realised that there is a significant proportion of the UK population who have failed at life. People with poor education, dead end jobs, and limited means.

They are aggressively targeting these people, telling them that it's not their fault. It's the immigrants, the woke, the lgbtq, who are the cause of their misfortune.

With the fptp system, if you can get these people to vote for you then you may be able to get power.

The cynical part of me thinks that they will be delighted to get so many councils under Reform control. Not so that they can try to improve people's lives, but so that they can do massive damage. Damage that they can say is the fault of the Labour government.

In my area one of their candidates promised to fix all potholes, and go back to weekly bin collections. When they fail in this, they will simply blame central government, and tell their acolytes that voting in Reform in the GE will fix it. It's obvious but very hard to counter.

Nothing would possess me to vote reform - for the first time in years I didn't spoil my paper & I voted LD to try & prevent the local Reform candidate - but your framing of those that do is nothing more than snobbery! What a disgusting & offensive assessment.

You're a fool if you think it's just The Great Unwashed, that you're clearly so much better than, that did this.

From what I can see round here it was all types who voted that way! Business owners, the young, the elderly, landowners, farmers & so on - that's what protest votes do in a time when people are suffering en masse.

Not everyone is terminally online to pick through what Reform is really about, a lot will only read the leaflet that comes through the door. Candidates won't be knocking on doors saying 'fuck women & their rights! The gays can sod off! Free at the point of service healthcare? That can do one!'

They'll say things like 'the roads are a mess, the councils are spanking money up the wall, women's spaces need to be protected, squat-like multi-occupancy housing needs controlling' and those things are all true to most people.

Were they to ever get into actual power & try to rescind equal marriage, abortion rights etc there would be absolute & complete uproar in this country - make no mistake.

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/05/2025 09:02

Nominative · 03/05/2025 08:56

The trouble is that people voting Reform often cannot see the difference between illegal immigrants and refugees, and regularly conflate the two.

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Totally. If people are given housing, education, medical care and benefits or a job they are not 'illegal' they have been granted asylum. Those not yet granted asylum are living in poor conditions in hostels with a minumum of cash for necessities. On my council and local newspaper Facebook pages any information about new housing developments is greeted with 'Oh that will be for the illegals coming on boats' - if they really believe that people arrive on the beach and are immediately given a 5 bedroom detached house then they are stupid, there is no other word for it. If it's a town centre development of apartments made out of unused offices then maybe some who have claimed asylum will get to live there but by this time they will not be illegal immigrants. calling human beings 'illegals' is disgusting phraseology anyway.

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 09:03

Apreslapluielesoleil · 03/05/2025 08:39

No, because there is just not enough money to go round.

Imagine your life with two children, two parents working. It’s expensive in the early days but in time you’ll expect to have the money for children’s hobbies, family holidays, be able to repair your home or car when necessary.
Now imagine you have 11 children on the same income. Not such a rosy future for you or your children. You can cast out the big loving family picture but hard economics tell you two wages won’t go far amongst 13 people.

By next week there’ll be a few thousand more people needing a home, food, health care, dentistry, social services assessment, maybe unaccompanied children who need care. All these services are already stretched and an elastic band eventually breaks.

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You don't seem to understand the basics of economics or migration policy. Most migrants come to work. Workers pay taxes. Taxes fund services. People are the drivers of successful economies, not a drain on them.

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:04

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 08:51

I'm not saying all Reform voters are too dumb to do a simple Google search but... Just for you ..

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/dont-rescue-people-who-scupper-their-channel-boats-says-reform-uk-deputy

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Did you miss this bit "Ben Habib says navy or Border Force should not save people who throw themselves into sea if they have refused other vessels"

And I'm still waiting to be told when & where Ben Habib said this "Reforms Ben Habib suggested putting them into more robust dinghies, whilst at sea and if they scupper this boat, let them drown."

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Oh and you do realize that once you start being insulting you have just lost the argument?

FasterJonny · 03/05/2025 09:04

ThejoyofNC · 03/05/2025 06:27

Honestly this is just pathetic. It's a clear sign of the success of Reform when all people can do is spout nonsense about supposedly being racist.

Supposedly?

"Any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door." - Farage

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 03/05/2025 09:05

randomchap · 03/05/2025 00:13

They're just another populist party, promoting simple solutions to complex problems. Solutions that won't actually work.

They have realised that there is a significant proportion of the UK population who have failed at life. People with poor education, dead end jobs, and limited means.

They are aggressively targeting these people, telling them that it's not their fault. It's the immigrants, the woke, the lgbtq, who are the cause of their misfortune.

With the fptp system, if you can get these people to vote for you then you may be able to get power.

The cynical part of me thinks that they will be delighted to get so many councils under Reform control. Not so that they can try to improve people's lives, but so that they can do massive damage. Damage that they can say is the fault of the Labour government.

In my area one of their candidates promised to fix all potholes, and go back to weekly bin collections. When they fail in this, they will simply blame central government, and tell their acolytes that voting in Reform in the GE will fix it. It's obvious but very hard to counter.

I haven't voted Reform and I wouldn't... But "failed at life" is a strong statement that is doing exactly what you accuse them of, being simplistic about a complex problem.

The idea that no matter where you come from and what struggles you have, you can escape poverty and earn a good wage is the exception, not the norm and it is getting harder each year with the cost of living to get ahead.

People made comments like yours in America and it alienated people who are just looking for help.

I'm not saying the answer is allowing people to wallow, receive benefits and never push themselves. But the system is broken. Education is a shit show. Job markets are terrible. I know people that are highly skilled and they are going to 20+ interviews without any luck when in the past they could walk into roles.

It isn't actually their fault in many cases, they are just blaming the wrong groups of people.

I know families who are sensible with money, who could always manage normal life plus a few treats and now their wages don't last to the end of the month.

Reform isn't the answer, but the reason people are voting for them is because no one else is offering any hope.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 03/05/2025 09:06

Keirawr · 03/05/2025 03:34

You are not making any sense, try again.

But let’s see…

As far as being an economist goes, everyone is an economist if the Mickey Mouse chancellor who lied on her CV, plagiarized books and was accused of fiddling her expenses while working in the private sector is anything to go by. The bar is so low, that anything would be an improvement on that.

And wanting to limit immigration is not racist. You are behind the times. Squealing that people are racist for perfectly valid views is no longer enough to shame them and shut them up.

And that's how the US got a criminal for a leader. We're on the same path. Racists unite!

MasterBeth · 03/05/2025 09:06

bellsanddogwhistles · 03/05/2025 09:04

Did you miss this bit "Ben Habib says navy or Border Force should not save people who throw themselves into sea if they have refused other vessels"

And I'm still waiting to be told when & where Ben Habib said this "Reforms Ben Habib suggested putting them into more robust dinghies, whilst at sea and if they scupper this boat, let them drown."

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Oh and you do realize that once you start being insulting you have just lost the argument?

Edited

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It is literally quoted in the article I've posted.

The Reform politician said the UK should “use force” to repel migrants in boats and could provide them with another dinghy if they jumped into the water.

“If they choose to scupper that dinghy, then yes, they have to suffer the consequences of their actions,” he said.

Fourpawsblack · 03/05/2025 09:08

I don’t think people are bothered about people coming over and working in the NHS though are they? That’s not why reform
have gained popularity. I work with people from all over the world here on working visas who are all fantastic.

People are concerned about those coming with no skills, no means to support themselves, huge language and cultural barriers (particularly the cultural differences towards women and animals) Resorting to crime to survive or being shoved into HMOs in small communities that are unable to support it. I know from
first hand experience the probation services for one are struggling with the increased crime (sadly mainly directed towards women) caused by immigration and I can only
imagine it’s the same for many industries.

It’s not racist to want immigrants to be able to support themselves when the country is already on its knees. To want the govt to vet those who they are allowing in to ensure they will contribute and won’t be a danger to those already there.

springbirdss · 03/05/2025 09:08

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Wow, people make comments like this and then wonder why they're accused of racism.

Why on earth would an international workforce be crap. A doctor is a doctor whether they're from Yorkshire or overseas.

CappuccinoChocolate · 03/05/2025 09:10

Caerulea · 03/05/2025 09:02

Nothing would possess me to vote reform - for the first time in years I didn't spoil my paper & I voted LD to try & prevent the local Reform candidate - but your framing of those that do is nothing more than snobbery! What a disgusting & offensive assessment.

You're a fool if you think it's just The Great Unwashed, that you're clearly so much better than, that did this.

From what I can see round here it was all types who voted that way! Business owners, the young, the elderly, landowners, farmers & so on - that's what protest votes do in a time when people are suffering en masse.

Not everyone is terminally online to pick through what Reform is really about, a lot will only read the leaflet that comes through the door. Candidates won't be knocking on doors saying 'fuck women & their rights! The gays can sod off! Free at the point of service healthcare? That can do one!'

They'll say things like 'the roads are a mess, the councils are spanking money up the wall, women's spaces need to be protected, squat-like multi-occupancy housing needs controlling' and those things are all true to most people.

Were they to ever get into actual power & try to rescind equal marriage, abortion rights etc there would be absolute & complete uproar in this country - make no mistake.

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Yes this is the issue.

I cant believe any of the parties in and vying for power will do anythjng good for anyone other than the richer members of society. They ...including Farage will just keep on quietly perpetuating their wealth with a boot on the rest of us.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 03/05/2025 09:11

Farage has got that people pleaser factor he grins he drinks beer - his richest privilege background but like Boris he clicks with working people. Doesn’t mean he’ll be any good as a leader and actually it’s great he’s got all these councils because he’s all fur coat and no knickers.
but it’s a wake-up call for the other two parties Starmer and Badock they’re just dry