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To be really worried about Reform?

1000 replies

FiveHorse · 29/04/2025 13:09

Just that really. They’re predicted to gain the most from the upcoming elections, if this carries on could we see a reform government at the next general elections? Or is it press scaremongering as usual?

OP posts:
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23
BIossomtoes · 01/05/2025 14:46

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:43

If that were the case every immigrant in this nation would be illegal. They aren't.

There are no legal routes for asylum seekers.

BurntBroccoli · 01/05/2025 14:51

Alexandra2001 · 01/05/2025 06:25

@Rosie8880 Yep, but try telling that to people in Cornwall who rarely see a brown face... its all caused by x channel migrants & money sent to Gaza.... before that, it was all the fault of the EU...

And before that, single mothers on benefits….

snughugs · 01/05/2025 14:51

BurntBroccoli · 01/05/2025 14:38

This - a million times over!!!

Away you go! We have Millions more people than in the 1980s and you’ve forgotten about all the housing associations properties.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 14:52

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:43

If that were the case every immigrant in this nation would be illegal. They aren't.

Most immigrants are not refugees, around 11% of immigrants are

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:52

JHound · 01/05/2025 14:28

The first issue with this is the Telegraph is using incorrect figures. The 9% figure they use for the foreign population in the UK is from 2004. As of 2024 - the latest available census data shows that the foreign born population is 16%.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

While foreigners make up nine per cent of the population, they accounted for 16.1 per cent of the total number of arrests according to the figures, released under freedom of information (FOI) laws.

So in other words - foreigners arrest rates are on par with their % of the population.

And of course that is an arrest rate - not a conviction

Edited

Other sources say 14%.

'So in other words - foreigners arrest rates are on par with their % of the population.' WHAT?

How a person can look at this information and gloss over that appalling stats to pick out one discrepancy in order to defend the indefensible is atrocious.

JHound · 01/05/2025 14:55

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 14:28

You’re missing something though and that’s the increase in crossings against Labour’s ‘smash the gangs’ pledge.

That is easy to see.

I’m not missing that. They cannot stop crossings but they can take action to remove those who arrive and it appears those removals have grown in number.

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 14:56

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:12

If you sought genuine asylum (I know what is happening in SA at the moment and it is horrific) and came through legal routes you would be more than welcome.

I’m a dual citizen anyway and can move freely between the two presently. I’ve lived in the UK for 7 years and your weather is too dreadful!

I don’t think a white South African has much chance applying for asylum in the UK. The current rhetoric doing the rounds (which has gotten the attention of Trump) is not exactly 100% true. We have some very questionable race based laws and in the hands of the wrong leadership (which may be around the corner or not) could be very bad for white people in general. We certainly are a marginalized race group here in SA based on the laws and it really does affect peoples livelihoods, security and faith in the future. But it would be a stretch to call it genocide (our murder rate is high which needs international attention regardless of race) or expropriation of land without compensarion. But Africa is Africa and anything can happen and the ruling party of this country is truly dreadful for all South Africans and we deserve better.

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 14:57

JHound · 01/05/2025 14:55

I’m not missing that. They cannot stop crossings but they can take action to remove those who arrive and it appears those removals have grown in number.

They pledged to smash the gangs so if they can’t stop the crossings as you say it might influence people’s votes.

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 14:57

JHound · 01/05/2025 14:16

Even of they did not come through legal routes (most of which are closed for non-Ukranians) as a white South African they would be welcomed even if they came via an illegal channel crossing boat.

That’s a long boat trip!

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 15:00

BIossomtoes · 01/05/2025 14:41

Or owing to food sensitivities, sensory issues and difficulties communicating emotions.

The Home Office has appealed the decision.

The decision seems to protect the 10 year old.

Ofcourse not all court decisions feel right, plenty of loopholes are used, bit a knee jerk reaction to then declare that we must leave the ECHR

But hey, some people don't care about their own human rights it seems.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 15:01

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 14:57

They pledged to smash the gangs so if they can’t stop the crossings as you say it might influence people’s votes.

They will need to co-operate with other countries to do so, it will take time.

But I agree it is a meaningless slogan.

JHound · 01/05/2025 15:08

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:52

Other sources say 14%.

'So in other words - foreigners arrest rates are on par with their % of the population.' WHAT?

How a person can look at this information and gloss over that appalling stats to pick out one discrepancy in order to defend the indefensible is atrocious.

  1. Can you cite your source for 14%?

Official UK sources are 16%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021#migration-between-censuses

“Out of the 59.6 million usual residents in England and Wales in 2021, 49.6 million (83.2%) were born in the UK and 10.0 million (16.8%) were born outside the UK”

2 - It’s not glossed over. But of the argument is that foreigners are disproportionately committing crimes and the data shows they don’t then thay is relevant.

Obviously I prefer that NOBODY commits crimes but I have yet to hear an argument for why foreign nationals should be held to a different standard (and that is also without going down the path of what constitutes a foreign national.)

Also this feels as though you are shifting the goalposts because your data is incorrect which undermines your argument?

International migration, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

International migration, including country of birth, passports held and year of arrival, Census 2021 data.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021#migration-between-censuses

Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 15:08

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 14:35

'You either want a two tier justice system where some people don't have equal rights or you take away everyone's rights.'

Or option C. An improved set of rights that are applicable to all but do not allow for the current absurd abuses.

Option C doesn't exist.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:09

Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 14:28

@MerlinsBeard1

To suggest coming out of this would mean loosing human rights is sensationalist scaremongering.

Then what's the point of coming out of it? If we're going to retain exactly the same rights, why leave?

Trump is a nasty individual in your opinion. Calling him nasty could be seen as unpleasant and divisive... You see how easily that can be applied to anyone who disagrees with you.

Well it depends on which side of the fence you're on of course. You don't think a rapist who talks about 'grabbing them by the pussy' is a nasty individual. You don't think that sacking ten of thousands of people with no warning is nasty. You don't think that ripping off a leader whose country is currently at war and humiliating him on the world stage is nasty. You don't find anything Trump does nasty or divisive which says a lot about you.

All Farage has done since he was elected is orbit Trump. His constituency is one of the most deprived in the UK and he's barely been there. Yet you think he's a supporter of the working class.

Farage has said many times how he admires Putin. Putin is a ruthless dictator. I'm sure he's been nice sometimes but that doesn't negate torturing civilians in Russian prisons and all the other human rights violations he's committed.

Andrew Tate tells young men about raping women and is currently being prosecuted for rape and trafficking. The UK has a domestic abuse crisis and you seem to be condoning abuse.

Do you see what happens when you blindly follow nasty individuals? You end up trying to justify the inexcusable.

Then what's the point of coming out of it? If we're going to retain exactly the same rights, why leave?
To reform and revise. To make it watertight without the loopholes that seem to be found and exploited.

You don't find anything Trump does nasty or divisive which says a lot about you.
I haven't said anything of the sort. This goes back to my previous comment regarding the ability to separate respecting a persons actions in one regard whilst disagreeing them on other matters. BTW shaming tactics don't work on me. Isn't Kier Starmer is nasty and divisive person what with his pathological lying, in his removal of fuel allowance, WASPI women, PIP claimants and so on.

His constituency is one of the most deprived in the UK and he's barely been there. Yet you think he's a supporter of the working class.
That could have come straight from the Labour back bench. Does a perron need to be present in an area to champion the wishes of its occupants? No.
Yes, I do believe Reform policies will benefit the working class.

Andrew Tate tells young men about raping women and is currently being prosecuted for rape and trafficking.
Andrew Tate is a fucking arsehole, everyone knows that.

The UK has a domestic abuse crisis and you seem to be condoning abuse. What the actual are you on about? Where have I condoned abuse. That is a sick accusation to make!!!

Who is trying to justify what? You don't seem to be able to comprehend things very well.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:12

PandoraSocks · 01/05/2025 14:43

Yes, it seems an unreasonable decision, which is presumably why

Home Secretary Yvette Cooper appealed the judgment in August last year, arguing there was not enough evidence to show Disha’s deportation would be “unduly harsh” on his son.

Upper tribunal judge David Merrigan, who delivered the latest ruling on the case agreed, referring the appeal back to a new judge for further review.

Edited

That fact this was an argument to stay and the fact it requires a review is the issue here.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:14

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 14:52

Most immigrants are not refugees, around 11% of immigrants are

Obviously, that is my point.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 15:16

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:14

Obviously, that is my point.

So who are actually your issue?

Refugee/Asylum Seekers or Immigrants?

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 15:17

Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 15:08

Option C doesn't exist.

Why not?

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:22

Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 15:08

Option C doesn't exist.

That is the WHOLE point. It needs to exist. Nothing exists until it is done.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:24

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 15:16

So who are actually your issue?

Refugee/Asylum Seekers or Immigrants?

Illegal immigrants, because you know, they are illegal.

Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 15:25

@MerlinsBeard1 You're accusing me of not having comprehension? How many times have you called asylum seekers illegal immigrants?

How many times have you casually talked about coming out of the ECHR and spoken about addressing loopholes?

You've got no idea how long it would take to sort out the mess that would create because we have agreements and laws built on the ECHR.

There aren't 'loopholes', the law is being interpreted by judges according to individual circumstances. I believe Cooper is talking about providing guidance on how to interpret certain parts of the ECHR, but that's all you can do.

You don't even know why Reform and the Tories want to come out of it and the Human Rights Act. Which are the two human rights protections we have.

I haven't said anything of the sort.

Yes you did.

. BTW shaming tactics don't work on me

That's obvious.

Kier Starmer is nasty and divisive person what with his pathological lying, in his removal of fuel allowance, WASPI women, PIP claimants and so on.

Gosh. How nasty and divisive.
.
That could have come straight from the Labour back bench. Does a perron need to be present in an area to champion the wishes of its occupants? No.

This is hilarious. You need to be in the country to champion your constituency and you need to meet them and have surgeries. That means you need to do what you're being paid to do. What has Farage done since elected to improve the lives of his working class constituents?

Yes, I do believe Reform policies will benefit the working class.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Andrew Tate is a fucking arsehole, everyone knows that.

Except Farage.

. What the actual are you on about? Where have I condoned abuse. That is a sick accusation to make!!!

Farage champions rapists and traffickers of women. You support him.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 15:29

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 15:24

Illegal immigrants, because you know, they are illegal.

So not refugees/asylum seekers and immigrants then.

BurntBroccoli · 01/05/2025 15:35

2dogsandabudgie · 01/05/2025 08:40

Would you call me a racist @PandoraSocks as I want the small boat crossings to stop.
From 27th to 29th April this year, so just 3 days another 1152 migrants have arrived here by small boat.

Where are these people going to be housed whilst their claims are verified. Starmer wants landlords to now house them instead of hoteliers as that was too expensive, but we all know there's a housing shortage. So where are these houses and flats going to miraculously appear from?

The small boats are a direct result of Farage’s Brexit.
https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/the-uks-refugee-invasion-is-a-brexit-made-policy-failure/

To be really worried about Reform?
Rosie8880 · 01/05/2025 15:36

Alexandra2001 · 01/05/2025 13:05

In some parts yes, but for most, its simply down to the very large number of houses that are built are mostly for open market sale.

We had recently had 34 houses built in our village... cheapest was £480k, a little further away, 200 built, 80% are for open market sale.

Even more weirdly, out of area HA 's buy up houses built down here, as local HA can't afford to buy them... moving down their tenants.

Easy to blame second home owners but the problem lies with Govt/Council and the way properties and built and funded...as you have highlighted.

You have all my sympathies -one thing you said about people / authorities/ associations buying cheaper land than their patch… if we keep doing this all areas will be unaffordable - I mean it’s bonkers. The only way this will change is via government policy reform which will feel a bit radical - and building homes that are for social NOT affordable rent. In areas housing value will lower as more stock is available and demand drops. To do this would be a vote killer on basis of thr 30% of population who now do vote - home owners. What is really needed is more people to vote , to believe in a party and what we have now is reform pedaling promises they won’t keep (as they are in main multi millionaires who don’t have any civic / public service ethics). We need to push the current government to change their policies - easier said than done tho …

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