Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really worried about Reform?

1000 replies

FiveHorse · 29/04/2025 13:09

Just that really. They’re predicted to gain the most from the upcoming elections, if this carries on could we see a reform government at the next general elections? Or is it press scaremongering as usual?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Maitri108 · 01/05/2025 12:35

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:25

Plenty of other civilised countries cope without being in the ECHR. I'd say being unable to deport criminals because their kid only likes a specific type of chicken nugget or, the latest travesty, is 'afraid to catch Covid' is deeply unpleasant and divisive.

Show quote history

The ECHR is European and the only countries excluded are Belarus and Russia. You don't seem to know much about it.

The ECHR was partly written by the UK and gives us the opportunity to take the government to court for human rights violations. Why are you so keen to lose your human rights?

You have also evaded the question. Farage openly supports some very nasty individuals such as Trump, Putin and Andrew Tate, do you find that unpleasant and divisive?

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 12:35

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 12:16

I don’t know much about UK politics so probably shouldn’t be commenting but it appears to me that underneath the veil of the anti-immigrant voting public is a sense of identity and nationalism and a dilution of that by ‘foreigners’ which people find upsetting. Instead of just owning up to this (like a child who doesn’t want to live in a blended family with other kids and adults thrown together) and saying it like it is they need to pin their concerns on ‘facts’ like housing and NHS queues and assign blame.
I live in a country where identity, race and culture are a political commodity and there are no bones about the hatred they have for each other based on these differences. The Brit’s just seem too polite and politically correct to admit it. Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow. I myself come from a mixed nationality (not race) family and we often come to blows with my mother who was born in one country, birth registered in another to foreign parents and UK nationalised citizen by virtue of marriage to my father about how she views herself as she can be so anti-immigrant when she is a migrant in more than one way.
it’s a very complex issue and there is so much emotive political narrative around it that it becomes hard to sift fact from fiction.

To follow on from myself as I think. It really is a strange situation to be in as a nation who colonized half the world. As a white South African who is being told to get out of Africa as a ‘colonizer’ will I be welcome back in England? My situation is a little more different as I have a U.K. passport with my descendancy only being one generation back but I have friends who are multi generational white people with their roots in UK who have no claim to go back to the UK unless they have the skills you want. Neither wanted here and neither wanted there. Again, a lot of the ‘go back to Europe’ sentiment here is political narrative for votes and power so I do take it from where it comes.

What a crazy world we live in.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:39

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 12:16

I don’t know much about UK politics so probably shouldn’t be commenting but it appears to me that underneath the veil of the anti-immigrant voting public is a sense of identity and nationalism and a dilution of that by ‘foreigners’ which people find upsetting. Instead of just owning up to this (like a child who doesn’t want to live in a blended family with other kids and adults thrown together) and saying it like it is they need to pin their concerns on ‘facts’ like housing and NHS queues and assign blame.
I live in a country where identity, race and culture are a political commodity and there are no bones about the hatred they have for each other based on these differences. The Brit’s just seem too polite and politically correct to admit it. Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow. I myself come from a mixed nationality (not race) family and we often come to blows with my mother who was born in one country, birth registered in another to foreign parents and UK nationalised citizen by virtue of marriage to my father about how she views herself as she can be so anti-immigrant when she is a migrant in more than one way.
it’s a very complex issue and there is so much emotive political narrative around it that it becomes hard to sift fact from fiction.

You're right you don't know much about our politics.

'Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow.' It isn't for the native population to integrate, it is for the immigrants to integrate themselves into our society. Many outright refuse to do this, which is why we have areas like Luton. Many can't speak English and many put their religion over the rules of the country in which they reside.

The reason so many of us have an issue with illegal immigration is because the majority of these people are unvetted young men, who may have a criminal history, many of whom are not fleeing war zones or persecution, but are coming as economic migrants. Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic.

Then take into account the fact these people are being put into hotels, getting free food, shelter, gas and electric at the taxpayers expense (millions and millions!) when the government have taken fuel allowances from pensioners who have paid tax their whole lives. Not to mention talk of making disability benefits even more difficult to obtain, you can see why the resentment is bubbling over into outright anger when the government are happy to persecute our most vulnerable citizens yet roll the red carpet out for someone who turned up yesterday! It is an absolute disgrace.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:40

Time for this oldie again

What has the ECHR ever done for us

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:41

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:39

You're right you don't know much about our politics.

'Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow.' It isn't for the native population to integrate, it is for the immigrants to integrate themselves into our society. Many outright refuse to do this, which is why we have areas like Luton. Many can't speak English and many put their religion over the rules of the country in which they reside.

The reason so many of us have an issue with illegal immigration is because the majority of these people are unvetted young men, who may have a criminal history, many of whom are not fleeing war zones or persecution, but are coming as economic migrants. Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic.

Then take into account the fact these people are being put into hotels, getting free food, shelter, gas and electric at the taxpayers expense (millions and millions!) when the government have taken fuel allowances from pensioners who have paid tax their whole lives. Not to mention talk of making disability benefits even more difficult to obtain, you can see why the resentment is bubbling over into outright anger when the government are happy to persecute our most vulnerable citizens yet roll the red carpet out for someone who turned up yesterday! It is an absolute disgrace.

Show quote history

Do you have any proof of these claims?

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:42

RatalieTatalie · 30/04/2025 16:20

So migrants are ok if they’re going to work in healthcare? How will this ease the burden on housing? Migrants coming to work in the NHS for example would be on work visas and therefore not eligible for access to social housing or welfare benefits.

Show quote history

Because we wouldn't have the 500 - 1000 coming in almost everyday....

Worriedsickmostofthetime · 01/05/2025 12:45

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:39

You're right you don't know much about our politics.

'Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow.' It isn't for the native population to integrate, it is for the immigrants to integrate themselves into our society. Many outright refuse to do this, which is why we have areas like Luton. Many can't speak English and many put their religion over the rules of the country in which they reside.

The reason so many of us have an issue with illegal immigration is because the majority of these people are unvetted young men, who may have a criminal history, many of whom are not fleeing war zones or persecution, but are coming as economic migrants. Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic.

Then take into account the fact these people are being put into hotels, getting free food, shelter, gas and electric at the taxpayers expense (millions and millions!) when the government have taken fuel allowances from pensioners who have paid tax their whole lives. Not to mention talk of making disability benefits even more difficult to obtain, you can see why the resentment is bubbling over into outright anger when the government are happy to persecute our most vulnerable citizens yet roll the red carpet out for someone who turned up yesterday! It is an absolute disgrace.

Show quote history

You're right you don't know much about our politics.

i think you’ve completely misunderstood me. I haven’t really given my view on how I feel but rather a sympathy to how you feel. I completely understand the sense of nationalism and needing to retain that.

It’s complex and I think that the number one underlying principle to any immigration policy whatever that may be is integration and a retention of the country’s traditions, beliefs, religion etc. That should not be sacrificed for anybody’s political views.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:45

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:41

Do you have any proof of these claims?

Show quote history

Which part do you believe is untrue? I will be happy to provide the proof.

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 12:46

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:25

Plenty of other civilised countries cope without being in the ECHR. I'd say being unable to deport criminals because their kid only likes a specific type of chicken nugget or, the latest travesty, is 'afraid to catch Covid' is deeply unpleasant and divisive.

Show quote history

Re civilised countries they do cope outside it yes.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:46

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:45

Which part do you believe is untrue? I will be happy to provide the proof.

Show quote history

All of it, and can you also tell us what Reform's policies are on disability benefits?

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:49

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 12:46

Re civilised countries they do cope outside it yes.

Show quote history

Is that because they are outside Europe which the UK isn't?

I thought we had kind of established that people want to keep all the rights they have in the EHCR, so why leave?

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:51

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:46

All of it, and can you also tell us what Reform's policies are on disability benefits?

Show quote history

No, I am not writing an essay for you. You need to point out why you disagree with my comment, then I will respond. I won't be drawn into a debate with someone who's idea of challenging an argument is to say 'prove it' without providing any counterarguments of their own. It's lazy and I see right through it. I've come up against this tactic often enough.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:52

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:51

No, I am not writing an essay for you. You need to point out why you disagree with my comment, then I will respond. I won't be drawn into a debate with someone who's idea of challenging an argument is to say 'prove it' without providing any counterarguments of their own. It's lazy and I see right through it. I've come up against this tactic often enough.

Show quote history

That answers my question then

I have seen your tactics often enough as well

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:54

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:49

Is that because they are outside Europe which the UK isn't?

I thought we had kind of established that people want to keep all the rights they have in the EHCR, so why leave?

Show quote history

Does being inside Europe mean a country can't function without this ridiculous set of rules that is open to abuse.

Why leave? Not being able to deport dangerous criminals because of chicken nuggets is one example.

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:56

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:52

That answers my question then

I have seen your tactics often enough as well

Show quote history

I have specifically asked you to explain why you think I am wrong. You are unable to do this. I am happy to respond in full once you have.

You can't ask me to prove my points when you haven't given me anything to respond to!! Do you know how a debate works?

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:59

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:56

I have specifically asked you to explain why you think I am wrong. You are unable to do this. I am happy to respond in full once you have.

You can't ask me to prove my points when you haven't given me anything to respond to!! Do you know how a debate works?

Show quote history

Ok, start with this statement then

Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic.

Which studies?

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 12:59

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 12:49

Is that because they are outside Europe which the UK isn't?

I thought we had kind of established that people want to keep all the rights they have in the EHCR, so why leave?

Show quote history

Not sure anyone has established that.

They cope well due to their set up, probably better as they have higher level of democratic freedom and control over court system. Plus score higher on freedom index charts etc

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 13:01

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 12:59

Not sure anyone has established that.

They cope well due to their set up, probably better as they have higher level of democratic freedom and control over court system. Plus score higher on freedom index charts etc

Show quote history

Well nobody seems to be able to answer the question when asked which of the ECHR articles they would like to give up.

PandoraSocks · 01/05/2025 13:03

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 12:39

You're right you don't know much about our politics.

'Call it racism, call it right wing but people have a deep seated sense of nationalism and find integrating a bitter pill to swallow.' It isn't for the native population to integrate, it is for the immigrants to integrate themselves into our society. Many outright refuse to do this, which is why we have areas like Luton. Many can't speak English and many put their religion over the rules of the country in which they reside.

The reason so many of us have an issue with illegal immigration is because the majority of these people are unvetted young men, who may have a criminal history, many of whom are not fleeing war zones or persecution, but are coming as economic migrants. Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic.

Then take into account the fact these people are being put into hotels, getting free food, shelter, gas and electric at the taxpayers expense (millions and millions!) when the government have taken fuel allowances from pensioners who have paid tax their whole lives. Not to mention talk of making disability benefits even more difficult to obtain, you can see why the resentment is bubbling over into outright anger when the government are happy to persecute our most vulnerable citizens yet roll the red carpet out for someone who turned up yesterday! It is an absolute disgrace.

Show quote history

Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic

The source of that claim which has been doing the rounds in the press recently is one study from a right wing "think tank" which is opposed to immigration.

https://centreformigrationcontrol.com/

Eta link.

Alexandra2001 · 01/05/2025 13:05

Rosie8880 · 01/05/2025 06:58

are you saying you feel these are the reasons or are you saying your Cornish neighbours may feel that the issues with housing down there is due to EU or immigration?

a key issue in Cornwall housing crisis has been thr acceleration and boom in second homes and holiday lets taking a huge percentage of homes out of the market for locals, reducing housing availability for sale and rent & pushing up prices due to demand….

housing overall needs to be regulated… it is in America, Europe… it’s crackers it isn’t here and the minute regulation rears it’s head … the idea is seen as a communist / socialist idea … it’s so not radical it’s just England has been indoctrinated that housing is and should be seen as an asset first, something that can be speculated on, rather than a home first.

Show quote history

In some parts yes, but for most, its simply down to the very large number of houses that are built are mostly for open market sale.

We had recently had 34 houses built in our village... cheapest was £480k, a little further away, 200 built, 80% are for open market sale.

Even more weirdly, out of area HA 's buy up houses built down here, as local HA can't afford to buy them... moving down their tenants.

Easy to blame second home owners but the problem lies with Govt/Council and the way properties and built and funded...as you have highlighted.

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 13:05

PandoraSocks · 01/05/2025 13:03

Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic

The source of that claim which has been doing the rounds in the press recently is one study from a right wing "think tank" which is opposed to immigration.

https://centreformigrationcontrol.com/

Eta link.

Edited
Show quote history

I found this FOI

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/crimesintheukbyraceandimmigrationstatus

MerlinsBeard1 · 01/05/2025 13:08

PandoraSocks · 01/05/2025 13:03

Latest studies show immigrants are 3 times more likely to commit sex crimes than native Brits! That is a shocking statistic

The source of that claim which has been doing the rounds in the press recently is one study from a right wing "think tank" which is opposed to immigration.

https://centreformigrationcontrol.com/

Eta link.

Edited
Show quote history

'Thanks to data compiled from among 41 of the 43 police forces in England and Wales by the Centre for Migration Control following freedom of information requests'

EasternStandard · 01/05/2025 13:12

DuncinToffee · 01/05/2025 13:01

Well nobody seems to be able to answer the question when asked which of the ECHR articles they would like to give up.

Show quote history

I don’t lose rights when in Aus. Not being in it doesn’t mean you have to.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In
This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread