Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

OP's friend chose to have four children with her "D"H who has subsequently buggered off abroad and isn't even paying maintenance for his progeny. I have to keep reminding myself I'm on a site called "Mums"net because not only is OP's friend managing four children under six by herself (OP said she has no family to help) and also working 15hrs pw, but it's her that's receiving the opprobrium of OP and some on here, rather than the absent father. It sounds to me like this poor woman is working very hard.

I'm no expert, but I believe twins generally do have one father.

You are setting the right example to your children OP. I can understand your resentment - this is taxpayer's money after all - but stay in your own lane and stop comparing.

Okay I get that being envious won’t help me and I do love my friend. I guess it’s the system that bothers me.

As far as I know she isn’t playing the system, she’s had a messy couple of years (from happily married to where she is now) her ex and father to all the children had a well paying (well by Scottish standards) job, they were renting but saving for a deposit etc. Then when the youngest of her children was 10 months he divorced her and returned to his home country straight away, she’s had no contact with him since. She couldn’t afford the rent for where they were alone etc.

I don’t think the benefits cap impacts her as she makes over the amount needed to be exempt from it and she can claim for 3 of her kids as the twins are a multiple birth.

She is still pretty young (28) so I don’t think she needs to be worried about her pension as she will be 30/31 when her youngest starts school and will return to full time work I’m sure, like I said she is still working and in a decent job earning above minimum wage.

I think it just bothers me that the benefits system supports someone to live a life of what I view as luxury, gousto boxes every week, holidays, kids do tennis, swimming and athletics clubs. I know she doesn’t spend lots on herself (doesn’t dye her hair or get her nails done for example) but it seems like her kids have more than mine do? I couldn’t afford for my kids to do 3 clubs, go to Egypt, I definitely can’t afford £60 a week on gousto etc.

It’s not that I think she’s abusing the system but I just feel the system is wrong.

She could well be working full time long before then and not get anything benefits wise

This is exactly who benefits are for surely. She’s using them as a crutch to get through an unforeseen difficult time, working enough to remain employable in her industry so she can support herself once her kids are in school.

If you don’t think this woman should get benefits you must just not believe anyone should.

Actually reading, understanding and then thinking about this woman's situation would get in the way of all the frothing...how dare a single parentbthinknthey man work part time.

OP, please leave this woman alone. You are not friends.

I’m sure the last post people told you to make a claim to see if you’re entitled to anything

Yanbu, and that epitomises why we are so unproductive as a nation. You should never be BG better off on benefits than working.

This^

She obviously is utilising and prioritising her money in very different ways to you. You're buying new clothes, repaying loans, running a car which is a huge expense etc while she's buying second hand clothes and no car. It sounds like she's living pretty frugally on the day to day and then saving for bigger things like holidays and Christmas.

I wouldn't begrudge her but I'd reassess your own finances.

You really think a woman with 4 kids and a degree who works 15 hours a week shouldn't be better off than a single person on minimum wage?

People need to engage their brains.

She is working though. And likely to increase hours as kids grow. Wonder how many of those SAHM with rich husbands would cope if they suddenly buggered off to another country and paid no maintenance

You are actually just a crap friend. She’s not even 30, had 4 kids while married to a working man. Now he’s ditched her and his children and isn’t paying for them she’s getting help while she needs it the most. This is what the system is for, and she’s still working while raising 4 kids alone after being dumped! Sounds like there’s a great chance she will go full time as her kids get older and be able to contribute more to the system. Meanwhile you will always be a crappy judgmental friend. Nobody knows what’s ahead of them, it’s not like she planned this outcome or that you can be certain you will never end up using the benefits system too.

Would you be happy if she had her exact same life but without the gousto boxes, extracurricular activities and one week-long holiday per year?

Having had twins myself, plus another DC (with DH), there is no way on earth, I’d consider a single mother with 4 DC to be living in luxury. All I can think is, it must be nonstop hard work, and I couldn’t do it! I found it hard enough with DH helping out!

I some posters are ignoring the fact that this woman works 15 hrs a week. The equivalent of 2 days, while taking care of four kids.

She won’t be without pension as she is building some, she will have some career and she is contributing.

Its very sad that some on this site (predominantly for Mums) are looking down on someone who is apparently managing very well in difficult circumstances.

If you don't think the welfare benefits system should support someone in your friend's situation, who should it support? She had no plans to be a single mother, her "D"H should be paying CM but isn't, she's working 15hrs pw with four DC under six(!) and will return to work FT when all her DC are in school. Benefits are the safety net for someone in just your friend's situation. Would you prefer they all starve?
And maybe your friend is much better at budgeting than you - try asking her for some tips.

YANBU OP. I stand with you. She should work a normal 40 hour week like everyone else does and provide for her own kids.

She’ll get free child places for at least two of the kids, package holidays are relatively cheap when you have multiple small children. Gousto etc depending on how you do it can be an economic way of feeding decent food to your kids and is quick and easy. She sounds like she’s really making the most of the money coming in - which is exactly the point of things like the Scottish child payment - to enable those on low incomes to afford a decent standard of living. As the kids grow she’ll be able (and encouraged to) work more and her kids will have a good start in life.

From your description I doubt she gets less money that you do , again have you considered she maybe used her money better ? She has 4 children alone , that in itself is amazing .
Do you work full time ? Do you have a partner , how many kids do you have ?
I don’t even think you are a real friend

Exactly this . The Scottish payment seems to help a lot if families getting out of the poverty zone into a comfortable standard . A lady living near me gets it for 4 children and in her words it was the difference between being able to pay swimming lessons and saving a bit for Christmas . It’s doing exactly what it’s meant to do, making sure those children in poverty have a fair chance

She is only 28 and already a single mother of 4 because her partner fucked off to another country? She deserves a medal honestly

And your example of your brother is someone few of us would have trouble feeling annoyed at, but there must be more to his story that you're not telling us (vulnerability due to drugs?) to enable him to claim UC without engaging in job-seeking activity. In any case, OP's friend's situation isn't at all comparable to your brother's.

I couldn't begrudge anyone a trip to Egypt in summer. It will be cheap because the heat will be unbearable.

To be clear, I think fathers who do not support their offspring are complete arseholes and despicable humans. And, if the law was any use, they would be treated accordingly. But, we all know they are not. And that is not a new thing. Should it change? Absolutely and I am an advocate for such change. Any sign of it happening? No. And unless you live in an actual cave, women know that.
Women have bodily autonomy and can literally choose to have the number of children THEY can afford. Is it right, or fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.