Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

Think about the alternative though - the only way to 'deter' people from having kids is to use the kids who already exist as an example by making their lives harder through making their parents finances tighter. Totally unethical and would lead to long lasting, expensive social problems which is well evidenced.

And even if you did reduce benefits to try and stop people procreating, there will still be vulnerable or less resilient people who will continue having kids and making ill-informed choices as well as those who are genuinely caught into crappy circumstances that couldn't have been foreseen.

In ops friends case she made an informed decision with the information she had at the time to marry her husband who she loved and for all we know was a good partner at least initially, while being educated and working full time and presumably quite able to afford 4 children - to have that number. This is something we ALL do when planning kids - if everyone only had children if they knew for absolute certainty they wouldn't be left unable to pay for those children through widowhood or illness or an accident (which could happen to any of us) noone would have any children and the human race would die out. Same as people buying a house thinking they can afford it before being hit by a global pandemic and losing their jobs in a recession. You can't plan for every eventuality.

@ArlJudey are you really her friend? You are letting people rip to her shreds on here, and you don't seem to be defending her at all.
What was your motive for this thread?

No it isn't. Get yourself knocked up love and live the high life 😂

Might be biologically impossible for a 🤖. though.

An easy daily mail article probably.

It does matter. Too many takers and not enough net contributors means you eventually run out of other people’s money.

The ‘friend’ is experiencing hard times due to the fact that her husband has disappeared leaving her to raise 4 DC under 6. She is providing them with a valuable lesson in independence. She could live purely on benefits whilst the state pay out for dependant DC but is thinking of the long term. So she is continuing her career so she can move to f/t when able. She is absolutely a role model for state support when needed in order to achieve independence.

What do you think she is doing wrong? Should the state not support the ‘deserving’ to help achieve independence?

If you want to start a benefit bashing thread you should really focus on the ‘undeserving’ as they are a much easier target. Hard working abandoned mother of 4 under 6 is too far a reach for all but the most bigoted.

OP's friend is not a taker though. She works, is a single mum to 4 children. The benefit system is setup for people like her.
And there is a vast gulf between "takers" and net contributors. Unless you earn over £40k, you are taking more than you put in.

I just can't imagine having a friend... and thinking to myself:

'I'd feel better if your life was a bit harder, if you had less money than me'.

What a strange and unpleasant thing to think.

what vile rubbish you're spouting. If you think your husband would never have an affair, think again. A look on the relationships forum will tell you it happens multiple times a day, to women who look just like you.

she is maintaining her career and earning power by working part time.

she had kids in a long term relationship. There is no indication whatsoever that she was smug about divorce not happening to her. I think you need to look in the mirror on that one.

She works. She claims the benefits she is entitled to. She can go on holiday.

A 'next crisis' is not inevitable.

Your last point is hilarious. Yes, she should find herself a single mum who works opposite hours to her, give up her secure council tenancy, and try some kind of communal living. She is resourceful and diligent when she turns up to work and her children get to school on time, clean and well fed (nothing indicates otherwise, does it?). She is not on the dole. She works.

It's really scurvy to go on holidays on the taxpayer dole when the people actually paying taxes can't afford to. Take the kids to the local park for free.

No, it isn’t. All children deserve a holiday if their parents can budget for it, wherever that budget comes from.

Nonsense. Self-sufficiency should be the goal. If she has "extra" money it should be set aside for future needs or emergencies.

Little children of that age don't know whether they are in Greece or in the nearby soft play, come on. It's really taking the piss to hop on a plane with four kids when actual hardworking taxpayers can't afford a break.

It's really taking the piss to hop on a plane with four kids when actual hardworking taxpayers can't afford a break.

She’s working, with 4 kids in tow she’ll certainly be working hard and she’ll be paying taxes in one form or another. No pisstake to prioritise holidays out of her budget.

Not only that, she probably wants to go to Greece herself.
I hope she has a bloody fantastic time.

She is still a taker. Working part is unlikely to lead to contribution sufficient to raise 4 children, unless you are a professional footballer. It’s a simple matter of math. No amount of mental contortionism can change the fact that this count to has a problem with too many people taking from the system.

These freebies have run out now. Hence the welfare cuts. But not quite deep enough yet.

She is still a taker.

The vast majority of private individuals are takers though. If you add up the cost of health care for mum and any pregnancies, any subsequent health care, subsidised childcare, education, any specialised public services very few people are paying more in personal tax than the resources they use cost.

For all I’ve always worked and have been a higher rate tax payer for most of that time, I couldn’t have covered my child’s health care costs if I tried. Mind you my kids are adopted so I’m saving the state a good million in care costs over the course of their lifetimes.

The welfare cuts wont affect OPs friend as she is not claiming for illness/disability.
In fact, the gov are proposing to increase benefits for those job seeking or working. OP is in this category.

Again, OP's friend was raising her 4 children with her husband... who left her. The benefits system is there for this. Of course he should be paying for his kids.... but it is the mum here that is getting all the hate. Why is that?
So much internalised misogyny on this thread. It is fucking depressing.

Can you imagine what she'd have got before the 2 child policy. I've worked in benefits a lot of people left as they couldn't do it, people with very large families were on benefit packages equivalent to 60/70k salaries and more. But long term her benefits will stop she'll be renting and probably no pension, it'll sort its self out. You're showing your kids how it's done properly.

She has twins, so I think the 2 child cap is different in that case.
She was married and her DH left her. He is not paying anything towards his own kids.
She works part time in a field related to her degree and intends to increase her hours once all her kids are at school.
She is already showing her kids how it is done.

What really gets me is that Fathers just don’t seem to held to account. They’ve left a woman with all the responsibilities and even news stories on TV never question it. Like the fairies got her pregnant. How they get away with it really pisses me off!

Totally! This guy has just upped and gone. Left her with a 10 month old, young twins, and another young child.

I am really scratching my head at the multiple comments and posters on here that are actually blaming the woman in this case. She is just coping as best she can. She is using the benefits system as intended. Even OP said she is not playing the system or abusing it.

100% this. These children have a father, who has just fucked off and left 4 children and decided he doesn’t need to provide for them or care for them. Where is the outrage against him?

So should the taxpayers pay for an overseas holiday for anyone who's experiencing adversity? I know plenty of people who could use a break. Oddly they pay for their own or they don't go at all.

This woman gets the benefits that the DWP have decided she is entitled to. She has budgeted that money in a way that means she is able to take her children on holiday. How other people budget their money is up to them.

And if the father paid for his kids, or cared for them 50% of the time so that their mum can work full time, they may not need benefits at all. But he doesn’t. So the burden on the taxpayer is surely down to him?