Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

So should no one have any children in case their husband leaves? The world would soon run out of people

It was said as a joke ffs i wasnt serious! Jeez

It’s a good job some people are having 4 children due to the massively declining birth rate.

The OP could make choices akin to her friend's if she thinks she has a better life - the life she wants for herself and her children. Presumably that's in her control?

Is she a nice person? Does she care about you as a friend? Could you call her in an emergency? These are all things that should concern you about your friend. Not that she receives state help that she's actually entitled to. She has FOUR kids 6 and under and she does it alone with no help. I think it's great she still works part time & she has a secure home for her children. You are a terrible friend & I hope she never knows how you truly feel about her.

Not sure you realize the irony in your own comment.

The declining birth rate is partly because people who take responsibility for raising their own kids find they cannot afford to have kids - because, wait for it, they are paying to raise other people’s kids.

How many responsible people would choose to have 4 kids. How many could afford to. Someone it seems that those who pay inadvertently are the ones who cannot afford to have kids. This perpetual gravy train of benefits is biting the hand that feeds it.

The ops friend has her disposable income because she lives in a council house, her rent will probably be half what actual rent is maybe even less. In fact I know people paying rent that is a quarter what it would be if the same house was on rightmove. Private renter's on benefits cant afford an exotic holiday every year. This isn't even really about the benefits. Also you can't just choose to live in a council house the waiting list is ten years in most places.

Also she has no car the op could probably get rid of her car and save £500 a month or however much with the finance, petrol insurance etc. That is true

I don't know her and neither do you.

Has the OP said she didn't have these children in a stable relationship with a man who absconded? You know around half of relationships fail?

Clue: Not many jobs allow you to earn enough full-time to cover childcare for 4 children. As the OP also says - this is a woman who is qualified in something and is working in her field, so can accelerate her career once the kids require less care. Seems prudent and responsible enough to me - just currently in a less than ideal circumstances.

I hope the law changes to hold MEN and WOMEN more accountable for their offspring, then there will be less need for benefits.

As for the pension thing - smdh...

So, if your DH leaves you when you thought you had a happy family life, that's your fault is it? You do realise there are many threads on here from women devastated to discover their DH/DP's aren't the men they thought they were? All these women are "foolish" are they? 🙄
Despite having four DC under the age of six, this woman is still managing to do some paid work, so she clearly does have a work ethic. And OP admits her friend doesn't spend much money on herself or frivolous stuff, but on good food and activities for her DC. It seems to me she's good with managing her money and is a damn good role model for her DC, despite their worthless father, but perish the thought that other mums should give her credit for that when they can just tear her down instead. 🙄

I am also ‘paying to raise other people’s kids’ (I have been a higher rate taxpayer for 18 years now). I absolutely don’t begrudge someone in the OP’s friend’s position from claiming top up benefits while her children are young. The woman works 15 hours a week.

Sadly not, OP would just feel resentful that her friend could then claim disability benefits. 🙄

I get it, I know 2 ladies, who work the system re working hours, hairdressers so easy to hide the money. Council house, rent etc paid, dads not on the scene but that’s another story. One of them had countdown to her 3 sunshine hols this year on insta. I try to not get annoyed but it’s hard. All correct as they’ve told me what they get, the system is all wrong

True.
Private rent is an absolute killer, but that's not the friend's fault.
OP may very well be on the housing list as well, but the wait is not the friend's fault.

It's absolutely pointless being so envious of this woman though, as it does not a jot to improve her circumstances.

True it's not her fault op resents her. She got lucky with the council house and now has cheap rent. Plus the other side is maybe she's just better at budgeting than the op she has no car and buys all clothes off tinted. Plus didn't get herself in debt.

There's many reasons for someone to have more disposable income it's not always about how much income they have but how they spend it and what outgoings they have.

I went on benefits for a time in Covid and definitely wouldn't of afforded exotic holidays so it's not just about her being on benefits

Not 4 children, no. There aren't many moderate to high earners with 4 children and there's a reason for that.

Honestly it is an issue at the moment that people with children in some parts of the country can have a more pleasant life working 16 hours a week in low responsibility roles, than someone working full time.

Yes, the way UC works you will always technically have more money working. But it can be a frankly negligible amount more for a huge amount less leisure time/time with your family.

OP - just be aware, its only really like this for a relatively short period when DC are young. Later on your friend will find that her benefit & housing entitlement plunges, her pension is poor, and she's probably not developing a career that will provide a salary to fill the gap.

It has to be this way or the alternative is children growing up in abject poverty/food insecurity. Long term that costs us far more as a state.

Maybe the op has a sense of personal responsibility?

Absolutely. And only 21% of single parents are living in council properties - heaven knows where all the benefit bashers think the other 79% are living.

I'm likely 10 to 15 years further down the line than OP & her friend. What I'm attempting to get across is the hard truth of what your 50s & 60s have in store if you're a lone parent. Women's earnings & potential earnings are severely affected by child rearing. SEVERELY. And your quality of life after the kids reach an age when UC support stops, relies wholly on what your income will be when you re-enter the workforce. There is no safety net, there is no 3rd option, your quality of life will reflect how you spent the child rearing years. It's unfair & it's because we live in a patriarchy (child rearing treated with no value or respect) - but that doesn't alter the fact that it happens, it is our current reality. The different choices that OP & her friend are making now, will have significant knock on effects in midlife. Make your own choices wisely & don't waste energy on envy.

What about housing association properties

Maybe not. She's also a single parent with two children, broke and miserable. Personal responsibility is relative, and that's why I do less judging and envying.

OP she's not "just on benefits" though is she, she is working. Do you or have you never claimed any at all? No UC, no CB, no free 30 hours childcare? All of these are benefits plus many more that are easy to forget about when you are use to getting them.

Even if she was, an abandoned mother with 4 children all born to the same father ie. a stable home with a reasonable expectation of provision, is exactly whom the welfare system was designed to support. And it sounds like she's doing a very good job of working (ok half as much as you but with twice as many children), raising her four children and making her budget stretch to include niceties for them.

Among social renters, the most common household type was single person households (43%), followed by lone parents with dependent children (18%) and couples with dependent children (13%), Annex Table 1.4.

Single person households make up 43% of households in social rented sector, but only 30% of owner occupiers and 34% of private renters. Lone parents with dependent children were also more common among social renters (18%), than owners (3%) and private renters (12%). Social renters were less likely to be couples with dependent children (13%) compared to owners (21%) and private renters (19%), Figure 1.1.

Overall, 31% of social rented households had dependent children, similar to the proportion of private rented households (31%) and more than the proportion of owner occupied households (24%),.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector#:~:text=Among%20social%20renters%2C%20the%20most,13%25)%2C%20Annex%20Table%201.4.

What is hard as a person working like a dog/making every sacrifice to keep a roof over your families head, is it can feel like no amount of poor decision making actually results in real consequences, for many.

Really it needs to be that being in full time work makes you much better off, after costs for childcare are taken into account. At the moment the difference can be marginal so why bother?

Rents for HA properties are not as low as LA properties and supply is also limited. There are a lot of benefit recipients competing for housing in the private sector and their housing benefit is capped at the local housing allowance so they struggle to find decent, appropriate housing.