To think parenting with screens is becoming completely normalised

[Minimalistmamaoftwo]

my husband and I were travelling with our two children on a ferry over the weekend. It’s an eight hour journey, our children are 4 and 1. We had brought lots of books/coloring/games and a Tonie (with headphones) as backup if they got really tired.
there were a family next to us about our age with slightly older children, maybe 6 and 3. The children were on their iPads for the entire eight hour journey. The mum read a book, the dad was on his phone with headphones in, they also played cards together while the children sat next to them plugged into headphones. We were absolutely astonished. It just felt like they were just relaxing and doing whatever they wanted and had completely absolved themselves of parenting because the iPads were doing it for them.
Just to note before people respond with the usual points, no suggestion they were ND and the argument that parents need a break can surely not be applied for eight hours whilst completely ignoring their children. I just felt really sad for them and worried for society

I'm also a teacher (23 years in the classroom) with an autistic daughter.

You would have judged the shit out of me on holiday. At the evening entertainment she has noise cancelling headphones and a tablet. Why ? Because her big sister wanted to go to the disco and we had spent 3 nights tag teaming bringing her to the room so dd1 could dance and then finally I was like fuck it. No one knows what my life is like and they can judge all they want but I want to sit with DH and have a watered down cocktail on my holiday.

So it's people like you and posts like this that makes a life just that little bit harder.

And to look at her there are "no suggestions she is ND" either.

Why do people seem to care so much about other people's children.

Wow, you are amazing. I can’t believe what a fabulous parent you must be. Up to this post I was on the fence because while you sounded like a bit of a knob i agree with you.

Now, I am completely not with you. 8 hours is not a snapshot of a day but it probably is of a week, and certainly is of a month. For example on a recent 8 hr night flight we let ours watch iPads/TVs until they fell asleep but they don’t normally have either in the week and less than an hour at weekends. Also we generally fully engage with our children but no one wants to hear - at 1 am on a plane - my 3 yo explaining about her views on the best colour, my 5 yo arguing about why she shouldn’t sit still and my 7 yo asking whether his aunts baby is going to come out of “her genitals or her tummy”. So screens - while not ideal for our children - were for that period a reasonable balance between their needs and those of the other passengers.

It is equally bad parenting to allow your children to behave in a selfish way in public situations. Are you sure that the staff were as delighted to talk to your children as they seemed to be? That the distraction didn’t compromise their job performance (bear in mind a 6 yo is much less likely to be amused by watching “staff do jobs” than a one year old)? That you weren’t disturbing other passengers wandering round and “playing games”? I doubt the soft play would be suitable for a 6 yo and a 6 yo and a 4 yo walking round would likely quickly end up running round and getting in the way.

As for an “excuse”, for not interacting with my kids here’s mine. And I don’t care if you think it an adequate one: I work an extremely demanding full time job (usually 50 hrs pw) compressed. Husband works away a lot. Nanny is amazing but knocks off around bed time. I get up at 5 with eldest who is just built that way. I get up in the night as needed (less now) and at least one weekend in three I’m by myself with them from the end of school Friday to start on Monday. My downtime is with them so if I need to have “solo downtime” it has to be parallel play-type downtime - so I read a book while they build a den or something. And am I letting my three make their own entertainment on a boat or plane so I can get the respite I desperately need? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So yes, I’d plug them in I’d be a much better parent afterwards and in the round that’s more beneficial for them than some excess screen time is detrimental.

Of course your circumstances may match mine or be more challenging and if you are able to parent as you suggest into your children’s tweens in this way I doff my cap to you. But if you are able to, don’t judge others by your abilities, they will be exceptional

I don’t think they do. Some people just use any opportunity to feel superior and virtue signal.

I agree with you about the over-reliance on screens for young children. It’s a real problem and will no doubt get worse before it gets better. When people say that iPads and similar devices are exactly like books, they are kidding themselves.

However, I disagree that parents should entertain their children at all times. Children should learn how to play independently. It’s important for their development.

Ugh so much judgement from the OP. The parents/ children could have been recovering from illness. Exhausted from a very active holiday. Maybe they had just had plenty of “opportunities to engage” and need some alone time 🙄 It’s absolutely none of your business how other people parent their children.

I agree with the op. My kids are older and ipads were not normalised everywhere they were younger. They had amazon fires from the age of 7 but were limited how they could use them. It wasn't as common to have wifi everywhere for a start. We left them at home when we went on holiday or out for the day. Even now they just listen to music on long journeys.

Maybe this family were doing it as a one off but there's no way that is the case for every child on an iPad in public.

Honestly OP what a nasty judgy post. Worrying about the end of society because people do different things to you - FFS get a sense of proportion.

Eight hours travelling is boring for everyone. I regularly fly long haul for work and everyone on the flight is plugged into screens or sleeping cos it’s DULL.

I don't quite agree with you that having small kids means parents shouldn't get to do their own thing at least some of the time. I don't like the assumption that parents should be there to entertain their kids constantly and to turn every experience into a conscious learning opportunity. I think it's good for even young kids to have some independence, to get used to entertaining themselves and also to have activities like reading an adult book and card-playing modelled to them. I quite often leave my 20 month old to play by herself with her toys for a while whilst I read my book or do a household task in the same room... some might call this lazy but she seems to enjoy getting absorbed in what she's doing and she gets plenty of interaction and activities with me the rest of the time.

However... overall I think it is understandable that you had a negative reaction to 8 hours of kids on their ipads and by the sounds of it not really engaging with anyone or anything else around them. 8 hours is just way too long. 3 hours would be too long in my opinion. So in the grand scheme of things I think you're right to be so horrified. I also don't approve of ipads for young kids in general, although everyone tells me I'm being up myself and will change my mind over time so I suppose I have to admit that my position has not been fully tested as yet...

The workers on the boat showing your kids around probably felt obliged to do so in case you complained, you seem like the type that would. I’m sure they would have preferred to have been left alone to do their jobs rather than have to humour you and your offspring

@converseandjeans people are individuals as are dc & we are all interested in different things. Plus learning happens everywhere

I think the issue is more obvious to people in education

Loads of my family are in education

I personally think there is some fantastic stuff for dc now tv wise, Camp Cretaceous is brilliant

Parenting doesn't have to be hard the whole time, it can be fun sometimes. You're not doing it right just because you're fed up and strung out the whole time.

If you reach the point where you're fantasising about dumping your kids on a desert island and running away and changing your name, you're doing your kids a favour if you smilingly hand them a screen and some headphones for a bit and order them an ice cream sundae while you take time to recharge.

I like spending time with my kids and part of that, I suspect, is because I have quite low standards and so don't find it burdensome. Quite often, we enjoy being near each other but doing our own thing.

On our last longhaul trip (we're expats), toddler DD made a run for it to the front of the plane and then I had to carry her the length of the plane screaming "NOOOOO DAT WAY" as she desperately pointed to first class.

She has a point tbf! 😆

You were appalled. I'm appalled by you giving your children aTonie box considering you deem yourselfsuch a fantastic, engaged, parent. READ to your children yourself, there's no excuse for using technology to do it for you as the interaction is vital.

Judging screen use whilst using a Tonie box is hypocritical af.

YANBU, I see posts all the time on here slating parents who send their kids to boarding school but in my opinion letting them sit on screens for 6/8 hours a day is worse. If you really can’t be arsed to parent send them to school rather than be raised by you tube.

Incidentally I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at 2/3 hours of iPad for a journey that long but 8 hours is ridiculous regardless of what you’ve done before/ after. Especially when the parents are doing something relatively child friendly.

Did the Tonie box have headphones?!

No it’s not, a couple of hours of tonie stories/ a film is absolutely fine. Coupled with a walk round the boat, getting a drink/ sandwich, looking at the shops, chatting it’s absolutely normal.

6+ hours of iPad (likely to be YouTube or Roblox) is pretty horrendous. Can you really not see the difference?

I can sort of agree with the people saying it was a travel day, maybe all normality is out of the window but perhaps a few activities could have been thrown in.

this is a topic I feel passionately about. My child is 2.5 and has never watched tv/screens. We don’t turn the tv on until she is in bed. It’s strange to me because iv noticed that parents have really strong views on things you should do for your child in the early years and often site NHS recommendations to back themselves up but The NHS doesn’t recommend screens before age 2 and this never seems to be mentioned. We made the screen decision very early on and it’s not any difficulty for us. I guess you get into a routine - we read a ton of books. We play as well and daughter is very good at entertaining herself. Chatting to teddies etc. we also don’t use mobile phones in front of her.

If you really can’t be arsed to parent send them to school rather than be raised by you tube.

School is a legal requirement...

On an 8 hour journey my DD9 would also be on her tablet, we'd also play games together and have a walk around but she would spend a bit of time on her tablet either watching movies or playing games

It's sad if this is their every day life but it's 8 hours of travelling and who knows what travelling they have done before the ferry or have to do after. If they were crying or unhappy and being ignored then I would agree with you but otherwise I think you're being judgmental.

The only time DS gets the iPad is when I need him to be quiet and not disturb others eg. stuck on public transport for hours at a time, so
your snapshot would be the full extent of his screen time and any extrapolation from that would be wrong.

Insufferable.

That is all.

YABU. I would say we have a pretty decent balance when it comes to screens. Moderate amount at home nothing excessive. Cbebbies, peppa, paw patrol that sort of thing. No YouTube (except for the off dance ballet video my 4yo wants to copy, or they drawing videos where you draw along, I quite like them!) and no tablets. However travelling all rules are out the window. If they want to watch their tablets for 4 hours straight on a plane, fine. It’s one day, they will survive.

It's harder to do this for second and subsequent children, I've found. When you have a baby breastfeeding for hours and screaming their head off who won't settle and an upset, hungry, lonely and bewildered 4yo, taking a few minutes to set the 4yo up cosily in front of Bluey with a picnic tea and a "milkshake" in a fancy cup as a treat while you're trying to get the baby to sleep is often the best you can do.