To ask DM to stop smoking in her own house

[ReadTheBlurb]

My mum, now in her 50s, has been a heavy smoker as long as I can remember. I was embarrassed by it as a teenager because my school uniform always smelled smoky, and people would make comments at school (none of my friends parents smoked then, and actually my DM is the only person I know who smokes to this day). I've never been a smoker myself and I can't stand the smell of stale smoke.

DM knows I dislike it and makes a point of smoking outside when I visit her (she lives alone). But it's really obvious that she smokes indoors the rest of the time. The smell of smoke hits as soon as you walk in the door. Every room smells of it, even those she doesn't use and definitely doesn't smoke in, such as the guest bedroom I sleep in. When she buys gifts, I have to wash them before use because they smell. When I visit her, I have to shower soon as I get home and wash everything I've taken into her house, the smell is so strong (DH avoids visiting her now because he hates it too, and won't come near me until I've showered after a visit). She herself smells very unpleasant, despite trying to mask with gum and perfume.

I'm about to have my first child, her first grandchild, as I'm an only child myself. She's very excited and I know she's picturing the kind of relationship she had with her gran and I had with mine - sleepovers at hers and quality time together just the two of them. And selfishly, I hope for the same thing, so that DH and I can catch the odd break and enjoy time together! But, I really hate the idea of my child going into a smoky environment, both for health reasons and the practical/aesthetic issue of everything being smelly and needing washing after every visit.

DM clearly doesn't realise that it smells and is "noseblind" to it; if she did, she wouldn't bother to go outside to smoke in my presence, and she obviously thinks she's being courteous to me by doing so. I'm sure she would do the same when her grandchild visits. But the problem isn't the fresh smoke, it's the embedded smoke. Would it be unreasonable for me to tell her how bad she and her house smells, and to request that she puts a stop to indoor smoking altogether, as a condition to have her GC in her house? (And if any MNetters agree this is fine, advice on how to handle it sensitively would be appreciated!).

YANBU - a smoky environment is horrible and not suitable for a child.
YABU - it's her house and she's entitled to smoke in it if she chooses.

I agree. People do stop at these sorts of junctures.

Grew up in a smoking household, ex-smoker myself. You are right about nose blindness.
I would speak to her now as if she agree to smoke outside it needs to happen now as the smell lasts for ages.
”Mum I know you’re really excited about baby and I hope you and they can have the lovely relationship I had with grandma. However, I am concerned about your health re smoking and worry about you. Also I can’t put my baby’s health at risk. Please please consider giving up the fags. If you can’t then please stop smoking in the house. I can’t bring baby to a smokey house but I really want to be able to visit you with baby’
Maybe get some info re effects of the stale smoke, be prepared to say how the smell is in the fabric of sofa etc IF she is adamant she won’t change. As in, start gentle, push a bit if necessary but stand firm for your baby.
#edit for spelling and clarity

You can’t ask her not to smoke in her own house.

My dad smoked like a chimney and I never took my kids to his house for this reason. He had to wash & change before visiting us when they were babies.

Amazingly he stopped smoking 6 years ago and I take the kids over there now.

You can raise the smoking issue by saying that you won't visit a smoky house with your baby, but she is very welcome to come to your house or you can support her to stop smoking so that you can visit her with your child.

You can’t tell her not to smoke in her house, but you can tell her you won’t be bringing your child round to hers if she continues to smoke inside. Just tell her that clearly and stick to it, then it’s her own choice to carry on or not.

You can’t make her, but you can tell her you won’t take your child there if she smokes inside. Can she at least contain it to the kitchen with door open?

Agree. You can't ask her to stop smoking in her own home, but you can make it clear that your child will not be visiting a smoker's home. Expect lots of pushback and anger over this though, she will go into denial and tell you that her house doesn't smell - because she is noseblind to it.

You can’t tell her what to do in her own home. Are you aware, that even if she smokes outside, the fumes that can affect your child will be coming of her?

It’s harsh but smokers tend to die younger and/or have more frequent chest infections/ toe amputations etc than non-smokers.
A new dgc might provide the reason for your dm to give up smoking. I’m sure her gp will offer support.

Yes I think this will make her feel attacked.

One face to face conversation. Say it’s important beforehand.

The drip drip approach is just nagging and niggling at her

This.

And unfortunately if the smell is that ingrained in the house it won't be enough if she didn't smoke another cigarette from this day forward.

And the sooner the better op. A deadline works wonders. Work towards her holding your newborn Dc,.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. My DM is quite a difficult lady with a bit of a victim complex, so I know that she'll likely take this very personally if (or rather, when) I call her out on the smoking issue. Our relationship over the years has been volatile and she doesn't like me challenging her, but I'm taking hope in the idea that becoming a grandmother will be a catalyst for change - in many ways, not just the smoking issue.

I'll take on board the comments that have suggested I just need to be blunt, and explain why we won't be visiting her at her home. It'd likely be a couple of years before any overnight visits away from home would start anyway, so perhaps asking her (as opposed to telling her) to adjust her smoking habits by a particular point might be a compromise/motivator for her too.

I'm case anyone missed my earlier update, she doesn't drive and lives in a different town, so I always end up going to her as it's a longer journey on public transport for her to come to us. Hence why, if she isn't providing a suitable environment for her GC to be in, it will make it difficult for her to have regular contact.

@ReadTheBlurb On the offchance your mum would like to give up but thinks she's too old or set in her ways, tell her that a Mumsnetter (me!) smoked heavily for 50 years but managed to give up easily. It can be done, if she wants to.

I had this with my Mum when I was expecting my first. I just took her out for lunch and just broached the subject over a cappuccino and a sandwich. Told her that it would be difficult for me to visit the house with the baby due to the smoke.

She was actually really reasonable and made the decision herself that from now on she would only smoke outside. Or if it was raining she would stand at the patio doors and blow the smoke outside. It worked! House was smoke free and started to smell much better. She did it because she knew how important it was to me and because she also wanted to keep her grandchild away from the smoke.

Can you chat with her about it without making demands and see what her reaction is?

You can’t tell someone else what to do in their own house which you know, the only way to approach this reasonably is to make clear the consequences they are not in control of if they continue.

Personally I would wait for the next time she mentions spending time with the baby and say something along the lines of ‘I’d love that but obviously the baby won’t be able to be here, will she/he?’ Then when she questions it (which presumably she will) reply with ‘well I can’t have the baby around the smoke can I? As you smoke indoors the baby won’t be able to come to the house at all unfortunately!’ If you present it as a done deal rule rather than something you’ve randomly decided on then it’s harder for it to become a debate with ill feeling. If she says she’ll stop then comment about getting the house in a ‘healthy’ condition etc. If she doesn’t then that’s on her not you.

Another one here with a mum who smoked throughout my childhood but then lots of my friends mums did too, could still smoke on buses and in cafes etc. I grew to hate the smell to the point of retching when home in uni holidays and getting back into the house.

Lived 50 miles away by the time had the first grandchild. Told her baby wouldn’t be coming to the house she needed to come to us but we would come and collect her. Kids only went there when they were much older for short periods, never overnights and I made clear why. She didn’t like it but tough, it was always freezing because she’d had doors and windows open to reduce the smell.

After she died the walls were bright white behind pictures and mirrors and yellow elsewhere. All the clothes, bedding and towels needed washing multiple times before donating. It reinforced for me that I’d made the right decision when I saw how it had affected the house let alone young lungs.

I’ve got a friend who is a heavy smoker. When her first grandchild was born and she realised that her son and dil were visiting everyone else in the family with the baby and not her, she was really upset.. didn’t know what she’d done wrong.
This went on for the first three years and she only saw the baby if she went to them, the dil mum was the one who got offered babysitting duties ect.
In the end she asked her son what the problem was, she was heartbroken because she’d pictured a much closer relationship.
When he told her.. It’s your house mum, it stinks of cigarette smoke she changed immediately. Washed all the soft furnishings, deep cleaned the house and now only smokes outside and washes her hands after.
The little boy can now go round there and she wishes they’d told her sooner.
How would your mum take it, surely she’d prefer the conversation to stop smoking indoors now rather than trying to guess why she can’t have her grandchild in the house.

This is good to hear and I'm glad your DM changed for you. My mum is a difficult lady who takes things very personally, so I've spent most of my life avoiding confronting her on anything just to maintain a peaceful existence. But obviously it's no longer just about my wellbeing, I'll have a child to consider too, and her feelings are third to mine and the baby's.

Not all smokers are like that. I'm a very heavy smoker but I wouldn't smoke in my house with my toddler, even if he wasn't here. Unfortunately for op it is kind of an awkward situation to try demanding someone doesn't do something in their own house

My mum's not the easiest either. Takes everything personally, fond of the silent treatment, BUT, she absolutely loves babies so I think that overrode everything.
Good luck. I would just say have an honest conversation.

You can't dictate what SHE DOES IN HER OWN HOUSE.

You can dictate that you won't allow your child to go in that house.

You can dictate that you won't stay there.

You can only dictate YOUR OWN REACTION.

I’m a smoker, and most smokers I know would agree that smoking needs to be done outside.

I was going to say you’re being unreasonable until I got to the baby bit. On the day I left hospital with my day old son, the midwife gave me a debrief and said if you have any smokers visit make them wash their hands and take off their top layer of clothing before holding the baby. This was 2015.

I would have a serious chat with her, maybe go shopping for baby bits, have a lunch and say. ‘Mum I want you really involved in the baby, I’d love for you to have them as much as possible, I want you to have the relationship with my child like I did with Granny. But I have one concern, you know what I’m going to say don’t you? It’s the smoking Mum. It’s so harmful to children and not just fresh smoke, it’s the lingering old smoke. I’d like nothing more for you to give up smoking by the time baby arrives BUT I know you’re a grown woman and it’s a lot to ask, but I want you around as long as possible and we all know smoking will cut your life short. It will. But if you won’t do that for us, could you start smoking outside permanently? I know you’re going to think I’m being bossy or pushy or an OTT Mum to-be but I just wanted to put it out there. I’m so lucky to have a Mum in her 50s who is still really young and I just want you to be involved as long as possible but I can’t leave the baby in a smokers house Mum. It’s too harmful.

See what she says, it might just start the conversation. Surely you want her to give up? And not just smoke outside?

As a heavy smoker wouldn’t you rather that your daughter asked you to not smoke indoors rather than risk not having a relationship with your grandchildren?