To discuss the societal impacts of older parents?

[Kindersurprising]

I feel like this is a really under-discussed area, particularly as it’s now really extremely common (particularly in middle class circles) to have a first baby after 30 and in many cases 35+.

I feel like in 20 years we are going to see quite a big impact, in adults having fewer (if any) siblings due to parental age, caring for elderly parents while having small children themselves, a lack of grandparent support and I guess a smaller family circle much earlier on. I only realised today that it will be vanishingly rare for kids to have great grandparents soon - my DC have only one, through me.

The positives are often cited as more money, and more life experience.

I was 30 when DC2 was born, so somewhere in the middle and not a young parent as such. I often wonder what it would be like to have had them earlier.

How do you think this will play out in the next 20-50 years?

& what counts as high level special needs?

My youngest is 18 this year so yes grown up but don't know how I am out of touch?

The only disadvantage of being a 17 year old mother is society judging you? What about not being financially secure? Being a child yourself? Not having finished your education? Are none of those something you consider a disadvantage?

Why does this always have to come down to extremes? It's not a choice of 16 or 44! Imho 20s are for pregnancy and childbirth. We're just being delusionally led into think it's 30s , and even 35+ now. It's not healthy. Yes, there'll be a million reasons people come out with why that's not possible, fine. For some it isn't. But I hear time and time again on here "me and DH have actually been together since we were 18, got itr first home aged 24 - only just decided to have our first child aged 37" or people musing "career career career blah blah blah , kids in my 30s" like it's the thing the "worthy" people do. Career can be established, but you don't have to progress! Not right away (if ever) family is important too!!! So many people just see it as "like those chavvy poor people" to prioritise a pregnancy over a career promotion.

It's worn like some badge of honour by the snobby middle classed ones "oh yes, like all my NCT group are 45+, I'm the youngest one by far at 39 with my first "

Bloody delusional !

@hazelowens I can't remember which comment of yours I was replying too, I can't filter on the app unfortunately.

My mum was a teacher, my dad a farmer.
They had my brother at 24, my sister at 26 and me at 33.
When I was 17, I got home from school one day and then when Mum got home, she sat me down at the kitchen table and half-laughing and half-hysterically, told me she thought she was pregnant.
She was 50 years old and she was horrified. I think she was most horrified that people would know she and my dad were “doing it.” After all, she taught first grade in our very small town and we knew everybody.
It turned out to be menopause.
And I could see in her eyes that she was disappointed even though she told me she was relieved.
I never told anyone else.
I think about that every time a discussion like this comes up.

I'm not sure we are a selfish generation.

I was raised in a large family. My parents went on having babies despite not being able to provide for us. We were just a by-product of their sex life. Childhood was cold, miserable, poor and indifferent.

We were taught by my dm to think having children was a waste of of a life , and that getting pregnant was the worst thing that could happen to a woman. That we should never ever trust a man. That marriage only benefitted men. Unsurprisingly we grew up with slightly odd views which took a while to iron out!

I have one DC, born when I was 45. He has never gone without, has holidays, hobbies, space, privacy, my time, friends. He knows I will always have his back. I am a fit, cheerful, full time working 61yo with an adequate pension. When I die DS will be well provided for. I have stayed single to ensure he has a happy stable home. Everything I do is to give him a better upbringing than I had.

I don't think that is selfish.

My mum and dad had me at 28, but 2 of my grandparents died before 40. The other two died in their 70s. God that’s a bit worrying to think about…

My partner’s parents had him at 38 but his grandparents lived until late 80s (one) and late 90s (the other).

So it doesn’t really matter in the long run, all depends on the health and life span of the grandparents.

@SquashedMallow

You can see actual statistics here

www.statista.com/statistics/294594/mother-average-age-at-childbirth-england-and-wales-by-child-number/

Women have been having babies in their 30s for decades...

Yes, my parents were 23 and 25 when I was born. I had 2 great grandparents, one who died when I was 18 months old and the other when I was 7.
I had 3 grandparents as my maternal grandmother died before I was born.
This was in the 1950s so it’s not new and not related to elderly parents

You realise you can start education with a child. By the time she was 22 her child would have been at full time school ! It's not impossible! Plus, sometimes you make do. You get things sorted as you go by.

How on earth do you think people coped years ago when most mothers started reproducing in their teens? Times were tough in the world but they didn't consider themselves "children". That's half our problem now, we're infantilism older teens and adults. My mil had 2 babies by 18 (she was married )

We're obsessed with perfection.

And also, you do realise not everyone wants a career. It is ok for some people to just want a secure 'job'- another societal problem. Looking down on people in 'jobs' who don't want a 'career'. So pretentious and "better than" yours sincerely from someone with a career (that damn well doesn't take precedence over my children)

How on earth have you heard that? It’s very rare for people to buy family homes at under 30 - the average age of first time buyers (many of whom are not buying family homes) is over 30.

it is true that older parenthood correlates strongly with education and wealth. That’s because women with a higher level of education and career tend to prioritize being financially stable before children. Which leads to much better outcomes for them and their children

Poor outcomes for teen mums aren’t because they had children as teens, it’s because teen mums tend to come from more deprived backgrounds anyway. There’s plenty of research about this. If those teen births didn’t happen their outcomes would still be the same.

Ok. Well, I'll have to disagree. I was financial secure and completed my family by 27. Most of my colleagues were 20s having children. (Qualified career requiring university degree) There's a massive difference between financial security and greed.

starting their families?

You realise you can start education with a child.

And how does one fund this in today's world?

How on earth do you think people coped years ago when most mothers started reproducing in their teens?

When did most mothers start reproducing in their teens?!

And also, you do realise not everyone wants a career. It is ok for some people to just want a secure 'job'- another societal problem.

Jobs are less secure now days & often don't pay well...

I feel like this is your experience but absolutely wasn’t mine as someone born mid eighties. My parents were 31/32 when I was born and definitely weren’t considered old. In fact all my friends parents were about the same age. One did have a third baby after we all went to secondary school and that was considered a bit old and unexpected but most of my friends had parents the same age as mine. My grandparents were even older as the war impacted them having children younger. Maybe it’s cultural or location based but I don’t think having had two children in my late thirties than most other mothers are a lot older. If anything most people are early thirties same as my parents. If I hadn’t had fertility issues I’d probably have been the same

I had a great granny till I was 4. Lost my first grandparent at ,23 then the other 3 within 6 months of eas other at 32 and 33.

@SquashedMallow Not everyone meets the right person in their 20s. Not everyone is ready to be a parent in their 20s. I certainly wasn't. People's lives don't run like clockwork. People vary.

I grew up in extreme poverty, and I was determined I wouldn't bring a child into this world until I could provide it with a secure home and a decent childhood. Until I had a career and a secure income to support that child.

To me that is far more important than some random idea that '20s are for pregnancy and childbirth'

I was fit and healthy, has an easy trouble-free unassisted pregnancy and a natural birth for DS who was born bang on 50th percentile and healthy.

He will go off to university shortly, and have all the opportunities he could wish for. He will be under no pressure from me to produce children in his 20s. If he wants to be a dad at 50 that will be down to him and his future partner.

Families come in all shapes and sizes.

@SquashedMallow

starting their families?

The age of mothers of first child has moved from 26 to 29 but very normal to have dc in your 30s which is what I said.

You are the one who said the below...

"We're just being delusionally led into think it's 30s"

"How on earth do you think people coped years ago when most mothers started reproducing in their teens"

If it takes to your late 30s just to be "financially stable" then either.

• you have excessive expectations of what is required to be financially stable;
• you are very bad at budgeting ; or
• you cannot possibly be as "career driven" as you were making out.

I didn't a career that required a chunky time at university and a low paid vocational stint. I was still financially stable by my late twenties

It’s much much harder to “start” education with a baby to look after. If you don’t have a family who will look after your baby for free, it’s practically impossible. That’s one of the reasons why teen mothers tend to have much lower levels of education than older mothers.

There hasn’t been a time in the uk for centuries when most mothers were in their teens. Certainly not when women have the right to education and careers.

women’s careers also invariably struggle when they have children. If you have already reached a certain level you are in a better place than if you are trying to get opportunities competing against a load of childless young people who can work longer and harder than you

Really. This table suggests to the contrary, for starters.

The risks increase significantly.

We can't deny basic biology.

Ok. Well, I'll have to disagree. I was financial secure and completed my family by 27

So you are disagreeing with statistics because they don't apply to you?

There's a massive difference between financial security and greed.

Financial security tends to involve housing security & most people aren't homeowners in their mid 20s today...

I think it's always been fairly rare to have great grandparents, I was born in the 70s and only 2 children in my primary school class had a great grandparent, it was something out of the ordinary then, first time mums were younger but life expectancy was also lower than it is today.
I had my first DC at 27 and both sets of GPS were still working and lived miles away so none of the GPs were particularly active in my DCs lives and support was minimal.
My grandma was more active in my upbringing and I stayed with her often during the school holidays. DHs grandma was also a more "present" GP.
I hope to be able to be a supportive GP but it's hitting the sweet spot of being retired and still active and healthy and living nearby.
Of course the older you are the less likely you are going to be able to cope with the physical demands of actively looking after and playing with young children, but given that retirement age is 67 and rising and that lots of people relocate I I think there is more to the lack generational support than the age you first have a baby, although clearly that is a big factor.
I was a bit sad my DC haven't had the same close relationship with GPS that both DH and I had but have long since accepted it. But it is nice that my DC met all of their GPS and still remember their grandads that have died.