To discuss the societal impacts of older parents?

[Kindersurprising]

I feel like this is a really under-discussed area, particularly as it’s now really extremely common (particularly in middle class circles) to have a first baby after 30 and in many cases 35+.

I feel like in 20 years we are going to see quite a big impact, in adults having fewer (if any) siblings due to parental age, caring for elderly parents while having small children themselves, a lack of grandparent support and I guess a smaller family circle much earlier on. I only realised today that it will be vanishingly rare for kids to have great grandparents soon - my DC have only one, through me.

The positives are often cited as more money, and more life experience.

I was 30 when DC2 was born, so somewhere in the middle and not a young parent as such. I often wonder what it would be like to have had them earlier.

How do you think this will play out in the next 20-50 years?

I definitely think the benefits will be environmental (that goes without saying) and financial - I think an earlier inheritance will offset some of the financial issues society faces now around home ownership etc

Perhaps a bigger focus on careers - although that’s not yet played out as NEETS are huge.

Severe and complex needs is a medical catergorisation.

Severe and complex needs describe individuals who experience significant challenges due to multiple impairments or disabilities that affect various aspects of their lives, including learning, communication, sensory processing, and physical functioning. These needs often require specialized support and resources to facilitate participation in daily life and education.

Key characteristics of severe and complex needs:
Multiple impairments:
Individuals may have a combination of learning disabilities, physical disabilities, sensory impairments, and/or communication difficulties.
High support needs:
They require substantial assistance with daily activities, learning, and accessing services.
Complex interventions:
Supporting individuals with complex needs often involves a multidisciplinary approach, including specialized education, therapy, and assistive technology.

It is often a mix of learning difficulties, autism, visual and hearing difficulties, epilepsy, genetic disorders, cogenital issues.

Had 4 kids after age 37. It is what it is. My kids say they don’t think I’m old.
we are all close. I had my FT career and work thru 2 births and quit before 3rd which could afford because we were secure in careers, had bought & renovated a house and had many options for well paid part time work.

had a friend in school much older parents … nothing odd about her or parents. It’s nothing new.

there are far bigger issues.

IMO - starting family at 35-40 preferable & better educational outcomes than have one at 18, and more before 25. Depends what you are measuring.

But it’s not a new thing. My Grandmother was in her late 70s when I was born. She was born around 1885 and had my mother (7th of 8) in 1925. I was born in 1962 and my first was born in 2003. So all of us ‘older mums’. I didn’t know my grandmother as my parents lived in a different country. But even if they lived in the same my grandmother was not the bake cookies with the grandkids or take them to the seaside kind of woman!! And as my parents were older they did babysit on occasion but time was spent together when we visited them in their country. My in laws lived 20 minutes away but only saw us a few times a year always at our suggestion.
Some contemporaries of mine had younger more involved parents, most do/did not (I’m 63). I only know of one person who had a great grandparent alive long enough for them to be able to remember them.
I think the real shift is not so much age (as I say, that’s nothing new), but that we are more likely in the last generation or two to live some distance away from our families. I live in a different country to my siblings, for example. Most friends’ parents live half a days drive away minimum (if still alive, most have passed away by now).
Of the disabled children I know, three were born to parents around 30, one was born to a woman at 45 but the disability is not related to age more the genetics of the father.
As for studies on the subject - a quick google pulled up dozens and dozens!

Off course it makes , those on better financial positions ( doesn’t have to be high paid jobs , can be finish paying mortgage as a example ) are less likely to have their parents cared by the state as a example so it does make a huge difference.
I’m not sure what you wish to discuss , maybe your issue was you mentioned age and I don’t think older age is the main reason people have less children , it’s financial and it’s a view on how society works , a lot of young women and men decided already they don’t want kids ever , it’s no longer seen as the mains route to be accepted within society that you have to become a mother , personally I see this a lot on my step sons group , ( all in early to late 20s) most do not seem interested in having kids ever , for them a child is hardwork and their mindset is very self focused on making their life worthy and fun .
This last issue might potentially bebe one a much bigger issue than having children late imo

Yes it’s been disappointing, the ‘boomer’ thread was really good and a number of really interesting points were raised, outside of the usual ones

The thread doesn't make sense because the OP conflated too many different things & ignores what the actual reality is already. Nothing has been up for discussion except people arguing about teen pregnancies vs 40 something pregnancies

I think a better way would be to discuss why it’s has changed and if it needs to be change how will it be changed ? Because it’s all nice to say people need to have kids sooner or more kids or less kids etc but finding a solution ( if there is one ) is the hard part . This new generation has a lot of self awareness , women’s rights have shown women life outside motherhood can be different and is accepted which we can’t go back or should , so society has changed and we must adapt .

I think couples are reacting to big societal pressures and making individual chocies but people feel judge even when you try to dicuss it on a more abstract demographic level.

Parental age getting ever older and that percentage of parents who are older ever increases there will be unforseen impacts - and some will be positive - more time and money per child - and some negative - increased risks.

It's also going to vary hugely - it older parents and grandparents remain fit and active and mentally alert into older age it's completely different to when that doesn't happen. If there money/resources also means more support for young or old as well.

I think best you can say is it a consistent trend and it will come with impacts - mostly likely more fertily problems and smaller families (less time to have as many). Also think it used to much more middle class urabn norm and it's now much wider trend as living costs rise for everyone.

You don’t know what you’re talking about - is the main issue here. Other posters have laid out their cases, calmly and concisely, but your opinion is totally one tracked, so that hasn’t left much room for intelligent debate. Just your opinions, which appear incredibly narrow minded.

People still have holidays , work and study and are parents as so many people put on this thread . It is hard to, may I add very very hard , but doable .
Im sure plenty of older parents are indeed receiving benefits but the majority of people who waited purposefully to have children was due to financial instability .

But the issue about the increase in children being born to older parents being more likely to have significant challenges is that that comes at significant cost to the public purse even parents dont receive other benefits.

A week or twos holiday abroad doesn't constitute "travelling the world " in my opinion. Travelling the world to me implies a few months at least backpacking etc. Which certainly doesn't leave much time to also be studying to be a lawyer.

Only a small number of people go on to become lawyers or doctors most older parents have humble jobs and need to claim benefits to pay their rent or for their childcare.

My point is the reasons given for young mum bashing on Mumsnet don't always even add up

Sorry meant to quote your comment

A week or twos holiday abroad doesn't constitute "travelling the world " in my opinion. Travelling the world to me implies a few months at least backpacking etc. Which certainly doesn't leave much time to also be studying to be a lawyer.

Only a small number of people go on to become lawyers or doctors most older parents have humble jobs and need to claim benefits to pay their rent or for their childcare.

My point is the reasons given for young mum bashing on Mumsnet don't always even add up

I did a few months at a time , but mostly a large block yearly , with a very young child , I suppose it was a “travel the world “ version for a single skint mum back then 🤷🏻‍♀️, he has indeed been a single child for over 12 years and traveled the world as in most continents , that’s what I meant . Not that we traveled for year in one go .
How was me being a single young mum and actually giving you the example I gave be bashing young mums ? I If anything the opposite , I had my son very young , no regrets , I just said it was easier to do it with more financial stability .

The increase percentually is very small, not enough for it to be a worry . Having less children yes I agree it may be a issue . But again I’m not sure the focus should be the age but more the reading why people are waiting and choosing not to have children or inky have one .

I think a better way would be to discuss why it’s has changed and if it needs to be change how will it be changed ? Because it’s all nice to say people need to have kids sooner or more kids or less kids etc but finding a solution ( if there is one ) is the hard part

There isn't really one re increasing birth rates, well no country has managed it yet despite various incentives. Less dc makes a society less dc focused so it becomes more self perpetuating if that makes sense. There was an excellent article about South Korea someone posted on another thread but I don't think I can find it.

Money

Suitable mate

Women being more aware the additional work and responsibilities is expected to fall on them and think screw that

Break up of close communities

Getting older and being concerned about potential pregnancy/baby complications

And some women just generally knowing that the sacrifices, work and everything else that is involved in child rearing just isn’t worth it. They would rather keep their time as theirs, like many men have through the ages.

But the issue about the increase in children being born to older parents being more likely to have significant challenges is that that comes at significant cost to the public purse even parents dont receive other benefits.

@helpfulperson people keep saying this but what does it mean? The economic & social costs of an ageing population aren't because an extra 10,000 women had babies in their 40s 🤦🏻‍♀️

I was not accusing you personally of bashing anyone, I was talking about what often gets said by young mum bashers on here. I also had my son young (16) so have noticed all the bashing that goes on here.

With regards people claiming to travel the world I wasn't aiming at you I was talking about the people that smugly claim to have travelled the world and studied to be a lawyer as if it makes them better than everyone else.

I do not believe it's possible to have actually travelled the world whilst studying to be a lawyer.
Travelling the world to me is more than just a week's holiday in Spain just my opinion

I do not believe it's possible to have actually travelled the world whilst studying to be a lawyer.

Not the point of the thread but plenty will have done a years travelling pre or post uni.

The perils of putting off fatherhood: why it poses risks to children’s physical and mental health

And children born to older fathers face higher rates of conditions such as autism, schizophrenia and leukaemia.
In many countries, the birth rate among older fathers is increasing. In America, for example, in 1980 about 43 babies were born each year to every 1,000 men aged between 35-39; by 2015 this had jumped to about 69 babies.

...
Conceptions from older men are also more likely to end in miscarriage or stillbirth. And those babies born to older fathers are more likely than those conceived by younger men to be born preterm (between 32 and 37 weeks of pregnancy) or very preterm (between 28 and 32 weeks of pregnancy).
...

Robaire says that last year he gave a presentation on the topic to physicians specialising in obstetrics and gynaecology. Many were unaware of the link between male age and poor reproductive outcomes.

In a review paper published last year in Frontiers in Endocrinology, Robaire and his McGill colleague Peter Chan also underscored numerous epidemiological studies that have linked older fatherhood to health problems in their children.

Older fathers are more likely, for instance, to have children with birth defects such as cleft lip or a hole in the diaphragm, and the odds increase with each year of paternal age. Some cancers also become more common. A birth registry study of nearly 2 million children in Denmark found that a certain kind of childhood leukaemia increases in likelihood by 13% for every five years older the father is. The risk of brain cancer and breast cancer are also elevated in people born to older fathers.

There are also neurological effects. Children with fathers who are more than 40 at their birth are almost six times more likely to have autism than those whose fathers are less than 30, according to one study. Babies born to fathers aged over 50 face an up to fivefold increased risk of schizophrenia. Obsessive compulsive disorder, ADHD, bipolar disorder – all are more likely, research indicates, if the father is older.

I think maybe this just needs to be talked about more - most women are clued up and aware of risks.

I think for many waiting till fiancincial secure will still take time or those who meet later in life it won't affect but it might make a few couples think why are we waiting a few more years - I think a small section of men do sort of wait till they feel "old enough" as they feel time is on their side without being aware it comes it some risk.

I don’t think women having kids in their late 30s is an issue, however I know several dads who had their first child after 50, I think that’s unfair. Their kids have got an old man picking them up from school, they may not see their grandkids, statistically far more likely to die when their child is still a young adult… I think it’s selfish.

I’m 30, my parents and all of the parents of my friends were in their 30s when they had us, so I’d say this thread is at least a generation too late.

My friends parents were in their 40’s when they had her.

They outlived ALL of the young parents.

in 1980 about 43 babies were born each year to every 1,000 men aged between 35-39; by 2015 this had jumped to about 69 babies.

The figures are tiny which is the point....but yes the media doesn't acknowledge the men's sperm quality declines.