To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

I think the thread is actually about men having ZERO STANDARDS for themselves but expecting more from women that they are willing to accept for themselves.

😂😂😂
You mean like ‘I’m looking forward to see you on Saturday’ type of messages?
You mean Theyre making the best out of it and know they have many years of that so put on a brave face and make an effort to get to know the other mums instead of being rude and grumpy?

Youve just expressed really nicely the difference between people who appreciate that’s that part if their role as a parent to take their dc to b’day parties, decide to be polite and appreciate it as much as possible (and maybe make a friend out of it too) vs a parent who plays the victim/martyr, is grumpy and makes it known to everyone, including their own dcs.

Personally I have issues with parents who think it’s ok to tell their child it’s a burden to take them to b’day parties. Way to make the chikd feel crap or that their wishes aren’t important.

Yes, people's looks are a factor in who you find attractive

What's that got to do with the subset of men whose personal hygiene don't meet your standards? Is their simple existence somehow offensive to you? If they were cleaner would you maybe find them more attractive and therefore you'd see them as more worthy somehow? Or something else?

I'd agree that blaming a man for his intrinsic body shape is completely unreasonable. And I also am one of those posters who get annoyed when it's suggested dads can't be naked around their children or babysit or whatever.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about the reality that, overall, men tend to make less effort. Whether that's on their appearance, to build social connections, to engage with others when at events etc. And it's very irritating. And it's even more irritating if you're single and would quite like to meet a single man so that you could be not-single together.

In my 20s, a friend's boyfriend was always having a go at her if she wasn't dressed well, made up etc (obviously, yes, he was a complete plonker). But the bit that made DH and I completely baffled was that he was the scruffiest jerk either of us had met in years.

I'm married, this isn't relevant to me really- hygiene isn't looks.

How about what they smell like?

Surely bad breath, BO, dirty clothes, food spilt down them?

Surely there is a basic level of hygiene if you are going to be in close proximity of others. Or do you think that screw it they can smell my unwashed pits?

And in fact I don't see the lack of effort from the early 40s mean I know but they are all just about married still or with a partner.

They are in fact mostly bar 1 obsessed with running and cooking good food that seems to be a new obsession.

Wait for all the divorced ones to come back on the market in a few years

Men not mean

When I used to still bother with men I would take them to Next and help them choose clothes. They always needed an upgrade.

Perhaps they aren't good at choosing what to wear.

Ds on the other hand is very fussy. There is hope for him at 20 as he likes to look smart. Unless they grow out of fashion sense?

I see a lot of MRA types countering this by saying women expect high earners that are willing to take on and pay for their multiple kids

Why on earth do you think women want to go to other kids bday parties? We do it because it's good for the children and we dress well because we respect ourselves and our children and chat with others because frankly it's nice to pass the time socialising rather than standing about looking like an awkward mute tramp.

If I was invited to stand in a muddy field with a bunch of other mums (which I'm damm sure a lot of women do anyways especially if kids play outdoor sports) I'd still look respectable, smart and clean and would socialise with others.

Sorry but you need to seriously up your expectations and stop making excuses for mens poor behaviour.

I sat not long ago with a single man in his fifties, who I love dearly. He was telling me the woman he seeks has to be petite because he has a type and that is it. She has to be this and she has to be that. We were sitting in his sordid living room, reeking of vape, with washing up from the past week piled high in the kitchen (which out of principle I had forced mysrlf not to do for him). I was looking at his yellow snaggle teeth, his vast beer belly, his grubby, faded unfashionable clothes, his thinning hair and thinking what is it exactly that makes men so complacent and entitled and unaware of their need to make equal effort? He kept asking after a beautiful, brilliant, vibrant, successful, slim friend of mine and I couldn't begin to explain he was way below her radar.
I dared to say he might want to give the place a good clean if he hoped to invite a woman over and his eyes widened in surprise.

I think in some ways it's about the occasions. DH mostly looks like a cross between Worzel Gummiidge and Compo, but then he spends a lot of time under cars or on the allotment.
When he makes the effort, fine but by the time we've walked from the door to the car you'll think he's been pulled through a hedge.
A couple of our friends though wouldn't go to Tesco unless they were wearing their suit. Suits, collar and ties at all times. On the other hand the number of young women in their dressing gown and slippers or old trackie bottoms is surprising.

I think some of the social occasions that people have highlighted are probably ones that they would rather avoid.

To be fair, some of the funniest, lovely men I've known have been a bit like this. Slightly quirky, and not particularly attractive but kind and sweet.

The good one who became widowers family members - few in social circle -seem to get snapped up really quickly.

Not sure about divorced one - few I know seem to go downhill and remain single bar a few cheaters who have new women sometimes pg lined up.

So suspect it's a growing pool of something wrong from the start.

(correcting strange formating)

There's probably a website somewhere that says the same about women

I want to preface this by stating that I am a lifelong feminist who thinks the 'male loneliness epidemic' is something individuals bring upon themselves (longer soapbox versions are available)

They are like this. Because women continue to fuck them.
The male 'loneliness epidemic' is because women are collectively waking the fuck up and no longer want to be with people who have no interest in their partner beyond them fulfilling the role of 'wife', men who are incredibly emotionally immature but will say 'i struggle with emotions so why are you being like this, you know that' but do fuck all to proactively work on it, men who leave 90% of the housework to their partner and want a pat on the back for taking the fucking bins out. Men who wake up age 40 with no friends, because they havnt bothered to keep in touch with anyone or make the effort, and possibly have spent exactly 0 seconds in their entire life wondering if they are coming across well to others and making sure they do so.

But women are still fucking these men because we have indoctrinated women that men can be 'trained', that any man with a decent job, who plays football with his son in the garden, who knows how to smile at the in laws and does the washing up can't possibly be anything other than an incredible catch and aren't you a harsh and picky bitch for not liking the fact he gets shitfaced 4 days out of 5 and doesn't do any childcare?

But then, I have an obese female friend who complains men should see the 'real her' and yet states she only fancies physically slim fit men because they are her type. I once asked why she couldn't see past excess weight on a man but expected men to for her and she got deeply offended. So it does go both ways.

Probably the same reason there are so many unattractive dysfunctional women?

The trouble with the internet is that it's given us direct access into men's brains. So now you look at a badly-turned-out man and you think, god he could be an incel, I bet his mother does his washing, he's probably got seventeen terrible habits and is looking for a position as a cocklodger anyway.

Whereas in the past we were less aware that these things seem normal with men. We massively over-romanticised them. Thought if they were a bit scruffy and verbose that they were deep thinkers. Now we have their thoughts written down on Twitter and so on, and nope, they're just twats.

So I suppose the bright side of the internet is that other women have a way of communicating their experiences, and we see the trend: that good men are not that common, really, when the chips are down.

A website? Thanks to incel culture there are probably scores of them. 😟

Yep massively frustrating.
Another job for women to do unfortunately. Finding good male role models is hard but places like scouts,clubs hobbies youth groups can be options. Still need vetting and monitoring obviously.
Desperately need more male teachers too especially in early years and primary. It's very dissapointing.

@ursulone Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be

Hmm, that's cleared that up then.