To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

See OP's post and prove her right?
"They seem flat, lacking in self esteem, disinterested in life, and brittle to the point of needing to find fault in others."

Some men clearly don't like the spotlight and have to bring it back to the women again. If you continuously miss the point that we are already saying NAMALT and using strawman arguments, it doesn't change what we are saying. A lot of men ARE smelly and dysfunctional in comparison to women. It just means you need to make sure you wash and point out to your friends when they look like they just rolled out of bed they might want to have a shower. We aren't asking for manicures and hot towel shaves even on a semi regular basis even though many of us spend/have spent a lot of our free time doing this for men

Off the back of this thread I was paying more attention than usual to couples when out and about today, and yes in almost every case she was better presented than him - the ladies being appropriately if not smartly dressed (so just nice clean jeans, jumper, shoes) with styled hair and make up. Nothing OTT but clean and presentable, and not slobby. The husbands were all in grubby sportswear, tracksuit bottoms and trainers, with a few days of stubble. One even strolled along with his hand down his pants. I can only imagine the horror if women routinely walked alone with their hand on their fanny before opening communal doors and using self service checkouts etc - it’s absolutely grim and almost primate like behaviour.

Yes a lot of women are overweight and this tends to be more common than men in the 20-40 age group, but overweight isn’t the same as badly presented nor is it showing a lack of respect to anyone. I know lots of overweight women who are really stylish dressers and put a lot of thought into their appearance. You don’t have to fancy them. The thread is about effort.

And yes the exception are gay men. Who seem to dodge the slob thing and seem generally well turned out.

Genuine question

are posters really encountering lots of men who don't shower or brush their teeth, even finding this in the workplace?

I get that dentistry is a problem but brushing teeth is basic.

I note @YowieeF said you know you smell so you shower before leaving the house. Don't you shower if you aren't leaving the house?

quite a few posters have mentioned men smelling bad and I'm thinking that can't all be health stuff, it's just not washing enough.

"Yes a lot of women are overweight and this tends to be more common than men in the 20-40 age group, but overweight isn’t the same as badly presented nor is it showing a lack of respect to anyone"

Except for themselves and their partners

I think it’s just a half arsedness when it comes to the arena of cleanliness.

Their clothes smell as they don’t wash them properly or frequently enough, or dry them properly so they get a damp smell. Their houses smell through a lack of cleanliness, maybe not awful but just musty, so the clothes do as well. Smoking/vaping, cooking smells, wearing things once more than they should, maybe they don’t absolutely reek of BO but neither are they fresh.

Then there’s a lack of hair upkeep. Men should be doing their ears, nose etc weekly, and barber every 2 months. But many don’t even shave daily.

It’s just slobbishness. I wonder if the divorcees have been looked after by a wife previously so have no idea about how to launder clothes properly, keep a house actually clean (rather than just tidy) etc

Are these so called helpers never been shown how to wash a sock men incapable of searching the internet for instructions?

If you see a dusty skirting board is it that hard to work out if you get a damp cloth and run it over the surface the water will pick up the dust?

It can boil down to basic physics really?

Or are they so stubborn they sit in filth because they can’t bring their misogynistic backsides to do “woman”s” unpaid/unappreciated work?

It’s utterly pathetic in 2025 that some men still think like this. It’s best for everyone they stay single.

"Their clothes smell as they don’t wash them properly or frequently enough, or dry them properly so they get a damp smell. Their houses smell through a lack of cleanliness, maybe not awful but just musty, so the clothes do as well"

They probably have mouldy washing machines. That results in absolutely horrific smelling clothes but I think people become completely immune to the odour and don't realise it exists. The smell can stink out an entire house if the clothes are dried inside.

The mould is due to always washing at 40°C and leaving the machine door closed between washes.

There really should be a public information campaign to get everybody using hot washes for bedding and towels, but all we get it adverts telling us how great a laundry detergent is a 20°C.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I think men’s standards for cleanliness are just naturally lower than ours. When I was dating it wasn’t unusual to be invited back to a flat or house that was completely tidy, but musty - they’d religiously tidied and put things in the dishwasher etc, but there was no cleaning or opening windows. I remember going to use the loo in one bloke’s flat and seeing one half of his bath was grey with dust - the other half being the part underneath the overhead shower. The bathroom was tidy with folded towels and all bottles put away etc, but badly needed some spray, a mop and a cloth.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect men to go to any social occasion having achieved a basic standard of hygiene. They were there of their own accord, not dragooned into attending. The women weren't "dressed up" as for a night out, but were all clean and tidy. The contrast was striking, and yes, I bet that if women are invited along to spectate at their partner's events, they don't turn up smelly and unkempt, and I have done my share of both riverside and pitch side attendance, so I do know what I'm talking about.

There's certainly something in the keeping a house clean part as well as basic presentability. It's staggering how different expectations & standards are. At one place I worked a couple of years ago there was one male colleague, I guess in his 40s, & single I think. He used to clear up (not all the time but now and then) in the staffroom. Putting cups away, washing stiff, sometimes wiped the worktop down. I actually heard a senior.female colleague say, admittedly in a joking way "I think I'll take him home with me" as he cleared up one time. There is no way I would expect anyone to make the same comment if a woman did the same.
I didn't know this colleague well but was told that he was exceptionally successful with women. I'd say he was quite decent looking, but not more so than many men could achieve with a bit of self care. What I really don't get is why more lonely solvent straight men don't do the same. Shave properly, have clean well fitting clothes, launder and clean themselves and their house, look after their teeth etc. I mean the bar is so incredibly low.

There does seem to be a cultural element here. I don't think many straight British & Irish men put anything other than minimal effort into their appearance. In Spain & Italy the average man looks way better (but often according to south European women colleagues don't do a stroke of housework if they can avoid it). It's strange really.

Shave properly, have clean well fitting clothes, launder and clean themselves and their house, look after their teeth etc. I mean the bar is so incredibly low.

I think some of them were brought up with the idea that some woman somewhere would be looking after them at some point in the future and then when that didn’t happen easily just gave up on themselves

Their mothers also have a lot to be blamed for

Who knows how their own mothers look lol.

No, they really don't. These men are 50 years old. There comes a point when even a half wit would cop on to the fact that they are no longer children, it's not 1975 anymore, they're not their dad, and prospective partners are not their mum. Blaming the woman who brought them up several decades ago is just scapegoating women for male inadequacy.

Bad habits set in at a young age, I think these men are like this for a number of reasons and it can’t be just pin pointed to one

I disagree. If an able bodied adult man with capacity doesn't maintain his personal hygiene at the age of 50 something, the only reason for it lies with him.

I have a friend whose interests are football, the pub, snooker, The Sun and drinking.

He's got a belly like Obelix. However he has lovely teeth and showers every day and is kind. He might be suited to someone who likes going to the pub.

Slightly different point, but have overlooked the rough around the edges (bad fashion, wild hair, no hair, questionable cleanliness of fingernails) if overall clean, non smelly and a decent guy. Yet eventually they turn out to have another fatal flaw - extreme emotional reactivity, terrible tempers etc. So it goes deeper than presentation! Unless the one follows the other…
These guys have also gone on to or have previously dated or been married to amazing women. Attractive, successful and genuinely good people. I actually despair. If there were a lesbian pill, I’d take it

YABU OP. These men have no obligation to pretty themselves up for you, or for anyone else for that matter. Their body, their choice!

Why dispair?
The world doesn't owe you a man or relationship.

If you find one the meets your standards ( and you meet his) great. If not, enjoy the single life.

Perhaps men who fall under this description aren't interested in being attractive or fully functional. I mean does it matter ? If a man can't find a mate, and he wants one, these are the things he could work on. But if many men aren't working on it, presumably they aren't bothered.

Good article

Taken !!!!!😮

Poor things. If this is true, it certainly could explain why the rest are making themselves seem unattractive and unpleasant, kind of like how women in war zones black out their teeth and rub dirt on their faces to evade rampaging "soldiers" (which usually doesn't work, of course).

Yeah you could just as equally blame their father figures for not setting a better example.

But then that would mean one more man would have had to have done a small amount of domestic work in the past and that just wouldn't do now would it?

Our teens are already more capable than these grunts.

This thread has been enlightening in showing how defensive a lot of men can get at the suggestion washing regularly and having clean clothes and a tidy house is a basic adult sign of not being dysfunctional. I think this might be why people they know don't bring it up with them and we all suffer it next to them on public transport, in the office, supermarket etc. I don't know how you change that culture. Do they cover it in PSHE in primary? Why it is good manners in a community to be clean? Maybe it would offend kids in poverty so it is avoided in case they don't have access to soap/clean clothes? I can see how it might be missed.

absolutely! one of the banner clues to husbands/partners having an affair