To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

I watched a clip of Leslie Jones on the Drew Barrymore show the other day. They were talking about dating and Leslie said they should put all the dating apps together and call it 'What's left'. That's what you experienced OP.

I stopped dating British men a long time ago and that sorted out this issue for me

The interrupting!!!!

The mansplaining! The patronising!

Never mind the looks or dress sense, so many men utterly convinced that their opinions and their time are so much more valuable than any woman's.

I think all the truly attractive women are already taken by the good men. Those of us who are "left behind" are the "unattractive, dysfunctional" ones.

Even if we don't see ourselves that way.

So a single man might have a bad shirt and bad breath, while a single woman might not look the best without makeup and shape wear.

It's all relative OP.

There's definitely a type of man who has a mostly unconscious belief that women are here on earth to look after men, so if they aren't partnered up go to rack and ruin. I've seen this in all age groups of men, not just older ones. My friend does EVERYTHING for her 20 something son. Mostly I think because she doesn't want him to leave home in a hurry, she is not doing him any favours whatsoever though. Girls his age won't want to be his skivvy!

Entitlement and loss of motivation.
Once upon a time all a man had to do was have a job and that would gain him access to women. Now women don't need men for financial security our expectations have gone up. Rightly so.
But society expectations on men hasn't. They still aren't encouraged to up skill the way women are. Because men have Entitlement this seems really unfair to them.
Add in social media which tells them they need to be 6ft muscle men that earn millions with empathy and emotional intelligence. It all seems too hard for men who haven't developed any Resiliency or ways of coping with negative emotions. They also often have no friends and don't invest in friendships/relationship the same way women do.
They are used to instant dopamine gratification. They don't want to work at something or change if they can't be amazing at it first try. Again Resilience.

So they loose motivation they suffer depression. Some find Andrew tate and blame women. Some live in a fantasy world with porn where they can get any women they want without having to change their underwear or brush their teeth.
Some just opt out all together.

The statistics on how women are out performing men on so many levels (obviously still glass ceilings and gaps) are astonishing. Women and girls statistically have more Resilience and often thrive in the same situations boys and men really struggle.

Men need to raise men up. But it's certainly looking a uphill struggle for them.

No wonder single women seek cats, far better choice!
i jest, done too much dating wise, been on my own too long, I gave up, feel freer and happier.
Have beloved Tom cat too

Exactly. It breaks my heart to read about young mums on MN who are still picking up all the domestics and their male partners do nothing. It’s such poor role modelling for their daughters and sons. You’d think we’d have moved on from the 1950s now.

That does seem quite extreme op. All the middle aged men I know are perfectly tidy, well-presented and sociable. BUT I only know attached ones. I can’t think of anyone single apart from my ex-husband 🤣.

The only explanation must be that the nice ones are already taken.

@MightyGoldBear

Men need to raise men up. But it's certainly looking a uphill struggle for them.

Difficult with so many broken families/single motherhood where the "boys" don't have a male role model and only see the mother/female doing all the housework, looking after them, organising them, etc.

The rejects tell themselves they don't want the women who reject them anyway because they won't give out anal on demand.

And they get more peeved because they have to go to shops and buy milk and toilet roll when really some female should be making sure their skiddie grots are magically cleaned and bring them a sandwich.

We have one of these rejects near us, he's dreadful, but thankfully single now (after one affair too many) so at least he isn't, and probably won't because nearing 60, yeah the youthful looks have most definitely faded, so at least he isn't making some female's life worse anymore. Eats terribly, doesn't really clean the house, just cannot bring himself to do any woman's work, even though it's only him, big independent male who can't wash a sink, it's pathetic really isn't it.

If I ever met any women who dated these types of dishevilled men quite frankly I would have no respect for their low standards!

A razor and a bar of soap does not cost much even this day and age.

Tell me about it.
When I was 23 I joined a tech company. There were 5 women and 20 men in one room. Only 2-3 of them seemed to take care of their looks/higiene. Meaning: regular barber, clean, combed hair and neat, clean, fresh clothes every day. Most came to work in the same oversized hoodie everyday and greasy hair. Most were quite arrogant and dismissive of females in a team. Being only 1 of 5 women among 20 men I should have been spoiled for choice, right? Such a disappointment... and the stench after 4 hours in the same room without an opened window... yuck...! But it was a long time ago, perhaps things have changed?

Girls are give subconscious messages from a young age that they need to look attractive and be sociable/popular in order to be “successful”.

Boys are given subconscious messages that they need to be good at their hobbies (as a child/teen) or job (adult) in order to be “successful”.

Both have major downsides. It’s not surprising that we end up with men who don’t take care of their appearance or develop their social skills.

The truth is, "good" partners of either sex are usually unavailable by the time they're 30. A few exceptions aside, the ones that are left are usually alone because they have one problem or another, or just aren't really that interested in a relationship.

I think there's a perception thing too with regard to the party the OP describes. What she describes is single men who sound comfortable with themselves, their attitude is "take me as I am or leave me alone, I'm happy with my life either way." Whereas the women feel they have to make an effort in terms of dress, make-up and general physical appearance to feel comfortable. It's just men and women think differently - about themselves and about the opposite sex.

The other aspect of this in that there is a party where the women make an effort and the men don't is that men don't feel they need to make an effort to attend, whereas women do. The women who didn't make the effort didn't attend. The party gives a false representation of the overall situation (but a fair representation of who goes to parties).

Lastly, plenty of men let themselves go once they are settled in to what they believe is a permanent relationship. Yes these men probably get kept in line more than the single man does because they have a woman's influence, but there is no real difference between people in a relationship and people not in one.

There is a cultural thing when British men don't tend to make the best of themselves for whatever reason. I don't think we are actually that attractive as nation but much easier for women to enhance the best bits.

Because desperate insecure women will still date these men and pay for their dinner.
there is definitely an element of that.

IME it's not wanting to spend money, on anything! Exes have had same clothes since they were 20 (45yo in combat trousers), refused to pay for a cheap holiday, refused to turn heating on, refused to get therapy (this is a common one and often badly needed) because it was "too costly". This while boasting he had no mortgage and over £70k in savings. Great, but how boring and dysfunctional do you think you appear? He's confused as to why he is still single while he sits on his hoard of gold.

I understand the general point but to some of the replies referencing baldness, I would say that is largely out of the man’s control so I wouldn’t penalise them too much for that 😂everything else is fair game though, no excuse for BO!

I do sympathise if they are struggling to find a dentist but I just budget to afford a private plan.

Dental care is linked to cardiovascular health and should be a top priority.

I have a partnered up male friend who only ever buys second hand shirts. He can easily afford better as he is very comfortably off but prefers to look very drab. Though he does keep in good shape.

It isn't just the single men. Men often let themselves go and in no time at all look way older than their partner. They just don't age well.

A few years ago, I went to a children's party. The children were very young and most of the parents were there. This was in a very ordinary, in parts verging on deprived area, not affluent. All the young mums were smartly dressed, made-up, chatty, pleasant, a joy to be with. The fathers? Stood around glumly grunting to each other, dressed as if they were off to clear an allotment, unshaven, unkempt.......I couldn't believe these women had settled for such no-hopers. Why do so few blokes take a pride in themselves nowadays?

You say this but really it isn't hard to ask about genetics when you date. If you are worried about baldness and your son's having it, why aren't men asking if the woman's dad has a full head of hair? They look at so many other female body parts with a critical eye and those are largely out of our control...

Re baldness, I think it's how they deal with it that can be the deal breaker. For me, I hate the ones who do the old fashioned "comb over" which looks ridiculous, and also the ones who let what hair they have go really long as some kind of weird compensation, and I don't like beards either! So, really, I'd be happy to accept the "old man look" of short/cropped hair on each side and the back, or full head shaving. I couldn't date a comb-over or someone with long/greasy hair. I want to see neat and tidy one way or the other.

Why would you go to kids party dressed up? I wouldn’t.