To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

My dad was divorced in maybe mid 30s and spent a lot of time dating various different women and likely treating them like shit.
Prior to this he was mummied by his mother and then married to mine who I think did a lot of taking care of him.
I think spending more and more time alone and nobody to challenge him on his laziness, rudeness, bad attitude, entitlement or lack of hygiene it got worse. He is always unkempt, teeth are rotting out of his head, he snores like a train, eats awfully, drinks too much and doesnt do any exercise but genuinely was surprised when he had a heart attack and doesnt have a clue why hes single. I dread to imagine the state of his house but it looks abandoned from the outside and I know he has had arguments with neighbours over it. He has 0 insight or ability to reflect on himself or his own behaviour.

He thinks anyone who takes care of their appearance is vain and has a very "take me as you find me" attitude, he will burp loudly in a restaurant and think that's ok, he talks over the top of everyone and likes to dominate and mains plain constantly, its exhausting spending an hour with him.

Honestly me and my gran have given up because we've tried for years.

The trouble with the internet is that it's given us direct access into men's brains.

Thats a good point actually.
It certainly has allowed women to see what a lot of men think about women when they would probably not dare saying so that clearly in RL.

A bit like women saying how crap so many men are but wouldn’t say that as obviously in RL (let alone in front of men)

I think a lot of these views have to do with social media and dating culture.

Men and women often have check lists of what they want and are offended by the suggestion that anyone they deem as not meeting that, 'punching above their weight' and not being good enough.

I think a lot of it comes from MH issues that men (more than women) struggle to admit to or seek help for.
And I do think this alongside men not lifting men up or having as many social activities/friends furthers the problem.

My sons (all happily married) are 35-40 and are nothing like you describe.
Theres a reason those men are single. And they don’t realise it’s on them. Then they’re prime targets for InCel ideology. That makes it women’s fault. Scary stuff really.

Is he your brother or something? I don’t see how else you could love him?

Women are holding society together.

Oh God yes the beer gut!!

We should not criticize or mock men for being bald because that is out of their control, I feel genuinely sympathetic for men on the subject of hair loss it must be hard to come to terms with.
Generally speaking men (compared to women) have a stronger urge to dominate, a greater need to attain status and kudos for themselves. Men used to hold most of the economic power and that made it easier for them to dominate women; if we wanted to get anyway in life we had to appease and defer to them.
Now that women can have economic power for themselves we don't have to appease and defer to men, they no longer have the power that they used to and no one likes to relinquish power 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm in Ireland, not in the UK but I don't see many men like described.

All the men in my life, colleagues, customers, friends and family are clean and well presented. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any unhygienic, badly dressed men.

I call it the football body. . . because it looks like he's got a football up his jumper 😬
Clarkson is a good example, spaghetti legs and a football up his jumper😬👎🏻

Again, expecting men to think the same as women. You've proven my point.

He kept asking after a beautiful, brilliant, vibrant, successful, slim friend of mine and I couldn't begin to explain he was way below her radar.

Had similar with BIL years ago in respect of my BFF. And what frustrated me was nto just that he was so oblivious to the fact that she might have wanted MORE than a man who made so little effort, but also that a) it didn't seem to have occurred to him that if he DID want to try a relationship with her, it was up to HIM to ask her out and b) that he'd completely missed that there was zero spark or attraction which should have been obvious over the many many interactions they'd had.

It felt to me like he knew perfectly well she wasn't attracted to him and that therefore she'd say no if he asked her out, but if he could get ME to do the work, she would come out with him and then... I don't know, magically start to be attracted to him? I'm not sure. It just felt like he thought it would be possible for ME to do the work to get HER to be interested in HIM. It was so odd and incredibly frustrating.

@HowardTJMoon I was referring more to the OP's description. Not caring about what other people think and dressing to please oneself, is I think, a sign of someone who is quite at ease with themselves, which is not the impression I got from the initial description.

@Daisyvodka 🎯 As long as women keep lowering their standards and keep fucking, dating, marrying and procreating with these losers, these men won't change. Another problem is, sadly, is when the woman wants a family- her options become even more limited. Employed/solvent and also wants a family are all thats required.....

@Bababear987 you don't live in my hometown (NE England) by any chance do you? 🤣 9/10 of the blokes here are like your dad. It's fucking bleak.

I always get the impression (from Normal People) and my Irish colleague that Irish men are a bit more traditional, perhaps that impacts the standards. Although TBF, I have Danish family and it isn't very traditional culture and you don't really see this indifference but then cleanliness is key.

I think a lot of men grow up to believe they are absolutely fine exactly the way they are, and if the way they are doesn't result in a great life, successful career, and the interest of women, its because there's a problem with other people and the world at large, rather than indicating they should change something or lower their expectations. When good things don't come to their door, they become bitter, self pitying and apathetic. They basically give up on a world they feel is against them. Which obviously then becomes self perpetuating.

I do think that historically - ‘having a man’ or being married was so important that women would choose to marry even if someone was dysfunctional or abusive.

Social shifts that mean it’s more and more ok to remain single for women have meant that men who would previously have been married remain single. Not necessarily by choice. I think this has resulted in a lot of resentment / incel culture building up.

are there more dysfunctional men (or women) than there were in the past? - probably not, although the flavour of that dysfunction might be differently labelled now. But I do think that those men’s issues are maybe more visible than they have been

He kept asking after a beautiful, brilliant, vibrant, successful, slim friend of mine and I couldn't begin to explain he was way below her radar
It's porn that gives men the idea that hot young women are keen to engage with very average looking men.

Become a cougar or stay single. Get yourself a toy boy.

Personally I would tell these male friends if they were punching above their weight.

Honesty is the best policy or how can things improve?

Also, on a more basic level, I think they haven't realised that chucking on the jeans you've worn all week with a scruffy t shirt and just turning up, isn't going to cut it at 50 in the same way it did at 20, with a young man's face and body and a full head of hair.

You dont have a valid point. You make excuses for mens shitty behaviour.

Men and women dont have to think the same but they have responsibilities in society and to their families and dont get to cop out because they have penises. You dont get to not go to your children's life events because you have a penis and consider parenting responsibilities a womens job.

Certainly a lot of input here. The thing that gets me is this. For a certain number of men I've encountered, they really seem to feel the lack of a partner in a way that most women I know haven't. This painful void seems to be composed of sexual frustration, a general lack of physical affection, lack of emotional support and a social outlet. You'd have thought men would start offering this to each other, as a kind of emotional social security safety net as, of course, anyone can become single at any point. But they don't seem to do this. So the only way to access these for many men is via a romantic relationship. If they seemed happy as they are, these single men with the traits mentioned at the start, well I guess Id have to say fair play to them. They're choosing a path that prioritises what makes them happy over propping up late capitalism spending a fortune on moisturiser etc. But they don't. So why wouldn't more of them up their game even a little bit, especially now women don't settle for anyone. Is it that the conditioning is so generationally deep? And at some point will women also start to say "if they can get away with making no effort why can't I?"

I do think there's a geographical component here. I've lived in rural Ireland, rural and big city Britain and big city Europe & East Asia. Japanese women said how awful Japanese men were, childish post drinking behaviour etc. but they generally mostly looked after themselves (dentistry aside). The men in The Netherlands and Northern Europe seemed into functionality and fitness in a big way. I thought there was a lot of dysfunctionality among British men (there is) but since I moved to Ireland..wow. Loads of dysfunctionality, no effort at all with appearance, bad habits galore. Maybe something to do with the Irish mammy thing? Yet there are also a certain amount of twinkly eyed good looking charmers. All gay, taken, or both.

Oh yeah porn definitely has a role to play here where men just seem to think gorgeous young women cant wait to get drilled by an older man 😂
Theres also massive misogynistic rhetoric online which is quite scary.

Irish men are some of the most entitled and misogynistic around and seem to be really into their porn.

I remember them being like vultures at uni and the rape culture being quite scary the way they would openly talk about it.

Ireland is still quite backward with this regard, with men being encouraged to sleep around and the "boys will be boys" excuses whereas women would be called whores and sluts for even a 10th of that type of behaviour. I'm obvs moving away from the topic here but it's attitudes and behaviours are like stepping back in time when you lived elsewhere.