To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

Yet the woman will always have made an effort with her clothes, hair, make-up. They will have washed. Unlike the men. Even on such a basic level women think of being appealing to others.

Yes. Women have been socialised to believe that how attractive they are to men is the most important thing about them. I don't know about you but I don't see that as a positive thing.

Which is you were a 50 something woman would be celebrated on here

If it means washing, even as a basic need I think that it is an important distinction. Posts here are clear a lot of men don't look after themselves at all, which includes smelling of BO, having greasy hair, dirty clothes etc. It's a basic standard of hygiene that they seem to have learnt in their teens still being displayed past 30.

I dog walk daily and don't wear nice clothes often, but I am always clean. I don't attract men at the same rate as those with a full face of make-up and floral dresses because men's expectations of women are far higher than the standards we are made to accept.

I actually agree there.

I do think the proportion of women behaving like that isn’t the quite the same than men. Simply because we’ve been socialised to please and take other people’s needs into account.
Hence the women have a wider social circle/friends than men.

Because you're expecting those men to behave the same as women. I guarantee you that no man anywhere wants to spend time at a children's party. What on earth would you think they would?

Imagine if all those perfect wives were invited to a five-a-side kick about or fishing trip, you think you would feel like dressing up to stand on the side of a riverbank in the rain?

Get real.

Men are NOT women. Thankfully.

I would never invite my DH to some other kids birthday party. What on earth were you all thinking.

Does it mean you prefer women who take no care about their appearance, let their teeth rot, have bad BO etc…?

Somehow I doubt it.

What makes you think women like doing this stuff?

You think women WANT to spend their afternoon at a birthday party with people they don’t know? 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

I try not to judge people based simply on their appearance. How about you?

It was how they were brought up, maybe?

My DH was discouraged from showering growing up, to save hot water. We had words!

His brother, who's single, has not got the memo though. Can't use the washing machine either apparently. He's almost at retirement age.

I am a woman and I wasn't socialised to think that.

Interesting how this approach of “I soon had him whipped into shape” and trained, is fine. We can tell men what they should wear if we don’t like how they currently are but men can’t tell women what to wear.

a lot of 50 something men have probably just decided to dress how they want, be comfortable, and not “make an effort”. It’s fine for women,, why not men.

Because most do . . .

Obviously, I don't know your age but particularly young people, even those who declare that are deep souls, surely had a slight interest in looks. Have you never had your eye caught by appearances?

No they don't, are you a woman?

The best parties for my DC that I attended where when all the parents were friends so they would become great get togethers following on from the kids bit! But that included the Dads!

Another MN post slagging of men
Get a life ffs

Why do you see children's events as purely a women's concern?

This attitude is why so many men think they don't have to give a damn.

Also agree there is NO way I would expect my partner to come to some kids b day party I would not want to go myself but would out of a sense of duty

Exactly so.

We do this because its important for our families to have social connections, to make friends, have people you can chat to. We want children to make friends too and be happy.

It's not because children's parties are wildly entertaining.

The men are resentful because they're not the centre of attention and/or think things to do with children are the woman's job.

In 10 years time, who is the one with good friends?

Because there's a double standard, one that I'm getting a little irritated by TBH.

I'm tired of reading posts on here bashing men for just existing. Some recent examples were a post about children seeing their parents naked, the OP actually said "do you allow your DH to be naked around the children". As if a man, a father, being naked was somehow harmful or predatory, but mothere were fine. And another one which had post after post all saying that teenage boys were just sex offender in waiting, and children must be protected from them, and that was just about someone wanting a babysitter.

Posters on this thread have criticised men for being short or bald, both of which are out of a person's control. But the same posters who think it's OK to body shame man would be outraged if a man dared to say they weren't attracted to overweight women, or tall women.

No wonder men have given up . . .

Dp

Our local WatsApp group would suggest that, yes, they do.

I don't think this is unique to single men. I think ti's probably true that MORE single men are like this because, of course, this attitude contributes to them being single. But it's surprising how often this is true of married men too.

I chalk it up to a sense of entitlement by men. I am nearly 50 so I think my broader social circle is made up of people (men and women) who are similar to me in attitude and approach so I don't see it directly so often, but I do remember how often me and other women (both single and in relationships) would bemoan the fact that so often when we attended some sort of event or activity it was the women who were making all the effort and the men just didn't. Whether that was dinner parties where women would get a bit dressed up but you were lucky if all the men were even wearing trousers, and at least half would turn up in jeans and a t-shirt.

I didn't consciously remove these men (married or single) from my social circle, but I don't think it's a co-incidence they are gone. They were also the ones who were self absorbed, selfish, mansplained, entitled.

One of my BFFs is a man and one of my all time favourite memories of him is him turning up at one of my birthday parties wearing this ridiculous shirt - very smart, very expensive, quite poncy - but he wore it because he knew I would absolutely LOVE that he was wearing it and had made the effort. And I did. This same man is happiest in dodgy shorts and a t-shirt, but has a small but (for want of a better word) curated wardrobe of well fitting, appropriate clothes for smarter occassions and in the 40 years I"ve known him has always turned up dressed appropriately for the occassion. Perhaps it's not a coincidence therefore that after he got divorced he didn't struggle to date and was fairly soon in a new serious relationship with a lovely woman....

I would qualify your comments to say men in the UK. My experience is more effort is made in the countries across the channel that I visit.