Is my friend outrageously entitled in her expectations?

[MariadeiMiracoli]

I moved to my current town 18 years ago and got to know a woman renting a house on the cheap from a local who was off travelling. She was an interesting woman who'd given up her teaching job after a few years and gone travelling to SE Asia and South America, teaching English. Very laid back, getting by on benefits and subs from friends and family. Used to do a few hours at the local pub or shop for cash in hand and when she'd built up enough, buy an air ticket and take off to Hawaii or India for a month or two, picking up bar work or sleeping on the beach when she got there, always anticipating that someone would help her out.

About 12 years ago she met a man and moved in with him in Devon. It didn't work out and she ended up in a caravan and, when she turned 55, was housed in a flat in a 55+ development. But she's unhappy: there's noise, one of her neighbours drinks and plays music loud, another has serious MH issues. I visited her there a couple of years ago and thought it was actually rather nice: smart modern flat in a very desirable Devon town and no issues on the days I was there. I've said to her that even in the smartest private flats you can end up living next door to someone noisy but she says she's not prepared to put up with it.

She wants a bungalow with two bedrooms, so she can have a yoga/ meditation/ craft room. She wants a south-facing garden she can tend. It's got to be within walking distance of a decent town, but somewhere quiet and peaceful with a green outlook. And parking because she has a car. She's found a number of HAs (one here near me, where she used to live, one where she lives now and a third in the Bristol area) that have a tiny number of properties that fit her bill. All of them have been built for disabled people. She's been driving around inspecting them and knows precisely which ones she's after.

She's asked for my support to try and get one of her chosen properties in this area. I'm not sure what that will entail, but I suspect it'll involve spinning the truth to match the HA criteria. I've told her very clearly that I don't think there's any way she'll actually get one of these properties and she needs to compromise, but she says that if you don't ask firmly you don't get. Is this how it is now? I don't know what to make of it.

If she’s been on benefits her NI contributions have probably been made automatically.

She sounds very entitled. A severely disabled relative of mine recently managed to aquire accessible accommodation after a very long wait. They were low priority for housing because they weren't homeless and didn't have kids. Every flat that came up involved stairs, narrow doorways, inaccessible bathrooms. The flat they managed to secure came with very strict requirements they had to be a wheelchair user and live locally for a start. So I seriously doubt she would even be considered. However, if she is thinking of trying to fake a disability I would be compelled to tell her I won't be supporting her application as I disagree with her ethics and it would probably be a friendship ending event for me.

She would be eligible for Pension Credit I believe.

She wants a, she wants be, she wants c..The .shs should have got a job and saved for it like the bloody rest of us.

She is entitled to a roof over her head and nothing else. And she's bloody lucky she's even entitled to that!

My friend (similar lifestyle to your friend but much younger) asked me once for my degree cert to copy. She had a contact who could doctor it to make a fake for her.

It was a flat no from me and she stropped a bit but got over it. She's still my friend but God no, I wasn't letting her use something I'd worked so hard for (and not particularly enjoyed).

People only keep asking these things if they feel they can so just say you won't get involved and leave her strop about it. These people have thick skin and she will honestly forget it ever happened I reckon.o

Even in a decent apartment block apartment living sucks when you start to feel you don’t want to be there anymore, you start to hear everything, living without a garden sucks big time, I can’t describe how you just feel trapped. So I’d guess she’s gone a bit tunnel visioned and can’t see what she has.

BUT she needs to get herself out by getting a job and renting and definitely not by tricking her way in. But I do feel sorry for her, she’s had amazing times and it must be a come down ti not have the freedom of choice she’s strangely had before getting back to real life

And then people go on about how tough the benefits system is.

It’s not tough. It’s a gravy train. It needs slashing to the to the bone to stop abuse of paying net contributors.

If the OP and numerous people commenting here are so astoundingly ignorant of how housing works in the UK, it's very likdly that OP's friend, who has been out of the country a lot, has no idea whstsoever.

Simply explain to her that it's incredibly difficult to get housing and it's unlikely she'll meet the requirements. No issue.

She can want whatever property she wants, can live however she wants really.

but it’s almost impossible the council are going to hand her as a single person, a dream 2 bed bungalow with south facing garden and meditation room. Let’s face it, these will go to genuinely disabled people who can’t access flats or houses. No matter what her links to the community are.

I can hear her saying to you what she said to me. Something along the lines of 'What's the problem with aiming for what you really want and what would bring you happiness, instead of just settling for what you're offered?'

My response would be that she seems to be using the term "aiming for" to mean "ask to be given for free", where most people would use it to mean "have a realistic plan of working towards earning to achieve this"

I knew masses of people like this when I was younger (I grew up in a town full of trust fund hippies) and almost without exception they come from wealthy families. As young people they get used to having their super permissive mummy and daddy fund the “free spirit” lifestyle, they live on fresh air and full moon parties and it’s all so spiritual not being in the rat race.

When the trust fund runs out and the penny drops that money is needed to support a life they start semi grifting off friends and claiming benefits.

Usually in late middle age they have drug and alcohol problems and nothing much to show for following their creative animus wherever it takes them. Your friend actually sounds reasonably sorted among these types in that she is volunteering and doesn’t sound self destructive.

But I agree it’s excruciating when people who have never worked properly suddenly wake up later in life to the fact that people need to work to earn a living. Be compassionate by all means but don’t get roped into anything. She doesn’t sound like a bad person just a naive and entitled person.

Then we usually pay for it ourselves.....

@MariadeiMiracoli She wants a bungalow with two bedrooms, so she can have a yoga/ meditation/ craft room. She wants a south-facing garden she can tend. It's got to be within walking distance of a decent town, but somewhere quiet and peaceful with a green outlook. And parking because she has a car.

Ok well the way to get this is to work hard in paid employment for at least 40 years building up a good pension and paying off a mortgage. She didn't do that.

She will not get a home like this through any kind of social housing system. Places with 2 bedrooms will be given to people with high care needs who need a carer to stay overnight, not people who want a yoga/meditation/craft room.

However, her delusions and sense of entitlement aren't really your problem. You don't have any duty to make her behave reasonably. You can let her know that you will absolutely refuse to provide any suport for applications for social housing which exaggerate or fabricate health or care needs that boost her chances of getting these unreasonable demands met, but will be happy to give whatever support is needed for applications that are fully open and honest (though I can't think what support would be needed other than asking you to lie for her)

Tell her to fuck off

Yes, she does think that consciously asking manifests things. I don't think she feels any qualms that she is effectively being subsidised by you and me. She often says to me that we are only here once, why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to. There are lots of NEETS out there who'd agree with her.

Interesting new twist on benefits bashing, but there you go.

If your friend is real, I will share a tale of woe to reassure everyone that the housing she desires is safe from her entitled little mitts. Get a drink and snacks and settle in.

Last April, my 85 year old Dad, in declining health, became the victim of DV from my 82 year old SM, who had spent three months in hospital and was released early from her eventual section because an arrogant psychiatrist thought her threats and aggression towards him, observed and documented by various ages were "just a marital issue". Long back story, but won't bore you with it.

He turned up at my house with clothes and medication in three bin bags.

The kicker - I was at the end of a Section 21 myself, having been widowed two years previously, my business had folded and as my credit reference was non-existent I'd had to approach my council for help myself. My estate agents had found a property on their books with the Holy grail of a non-picky landlord and not bothered by me being, to my immense shame, on UC. All I needed was the deposit and first month's rent, with them as guarantor, but their delays and prevarication about whether I needed that property, or should be going into a one room situation meant I had to borrow from a friend in the end (I'm 56 by the way, but woykd have been laughed out of their offices had I mentioned over 55 housing).

But what to do with Dad? SM owned the house outright, he was entirely dependent on state support, and private landlords wouldn't touch him with their income criteria.

Back to the council we go. On assessment it was determined he needed sheltered accommodation due to his multiple illnesses and increasing frailty. Somewhere ground floor, or with a lift close enough to his doctors and the hospital. After a month, which included having to provide multiple bank statements, medical evidence, proof of police involvement in the DV situation, and which all kept us in my house for an extra month, leading to me nearly losing my new flat, and racking up an extra months rent arrears, he was offered a temporary place in sheltered housing, that mostly fit his assessment criteria.

Looking back I don't know how we did it, but we got him moved in to a one bed which had been adapted for wheelchair users, which didn't bother him - his health was declining rapidly anyway. Did I mention he was a nuclear test veteran? Just so you know, veterans get no preferential treatment.

So you think this is a happy ending? Refill your cups, get extra popcorn.

These flats have nothing in them. No white goods or cooking facilities. We had to move him in on 24 hours notice, or like the offer, and magic up furniture. Luckily I had some, as I was downsizing, but I still had to beg and borrow from friends. Had to hire a van and thank God for a few sympathetic friends and for my son taking emergency leave from work.

I was then able to move house my self.

What then followed was a concerted effort from one particular housing officer to move him into independent living accommodation. Three times we went through an email scaring the living shit out of him stating if he didn't accept the property they had bid on for him, none of which met the criteria of their own assessment, he would be making himself homeless and they would end their duty of care.

With the first one, which, like the others, was out of his surgery's catchment area, the HA in question agreed he wasn't a suitable tenant. So they withdrew the offer. I had a conversation with his housing officer who was adamant that he could "just register with another GP" despite continuity of care being vital. He could also "just get taxis" as it was in a very out if town location.

On the second attempt I involved the mayor, who I know on Facebook for some reason, who copied in our local MP, approached Adult Social Services (I had already tried to get a safeguarding referral which disappeared into the ether). So far, so good. Same HA, who stated they didn't have any property suitable for my Dad.

Went through the same rigmarole a third time, finally with the input of a trainee SW who was getting us a package of care to support him staying in the flat he was in as it did meet his needs. Then she was transferred just before Christmas and he was "passed back to the office" to apparently dissappear off the radar again.

On the fourth attempt to move him, as he wasted away before my eyes and developed mild paranoia, they tried to tell him that the whole of the complex was temporary accommodation. His pithy response that it might be news to other residents who had lived there for years seemed to change things. Finally they offered him permanent status. They also tried to tell him it wasn't an "extra care" facility. When I sent photos of the big sign in the entrance hall saying in big letters it was, there was a deafening silence from ASC and Housing.

Long story short, he finally, after going through about the tenth "financial assessment" despite being on a state provided fixed income, signed his permanent tenancy from his hospital bed four weeks ago, roughly.

He died last Thursday from multiple organisations failure.

The Coroner is very, very interested in it all.

From my "grief stricken perspective" multiple agencies and my SM basically killed him, and I will not let this lie, no Siree.

So, the free spirit hippy who wants a yoga room will definitely not be handed her bungalow on a plate, just to reassure those pearl clutching about benefits gravy trains and entitlement. It just will not happen, I assure you.

Peace and out.

Should be multiple organ failure, but the autocorrect fail is also correct.

why would anyone choose to work day after day and have all the stress of work when they don't have to.

If everyone had this kind of attitude the world would fall to pieces

I couldn’t be friends with someone who has this kind of attitude, I would find it too frustrating

Lazy entitled freeloading waste of space. Tell her to get a job !!!

We don't know this, and also this will be impossible even if she tries.

Complete non issue

I don't mind her being a bit fey and financially lax her entire adult life as many artists, free spirits, spiritual seekers tend to be, or needing financial support and housing now.

It's the idea that she should have a perfect place, because she wants it and feels entitled to it - that if it even existed would be rare as hen's teeth and would be set aside for someone who actually needs it.

A smart modern flat in a Devon town sounds a whole lot better than some places people find themselves when they have fallen on hard times, or are older and displaced. She could be next door to a crackhouse or dealing with masses of damp and black mould, or shouting, DV, and alcoholic neighbours, etc etc etc.

Some of my inlaws are exactly as you describe , they are all “hippys” and this is 💯 a lifestyle choice. On one hand it looks all free and anti establishment but they make no link to the fact that it’s people’s taxes funding it , absolutely no connection or don’t want to obviously.
I’ve heard lectures and pontificating over the years like you wouldn’t believe with no trace of irony and all of them have paid almost zero tax but have managed to get full benefits, houses, they are experts at getting people to help them constantly and then go through friends quickly as everyone gets wise to them eventually. It’s all take, take ,take . One of them literally plans her holidays on how she can get the max out of other people, visiting people so they can eat and not pay , staying with people and not offering a penny , openly asking for stuff , I recently was asked did I have or anyone I know a car they can borrow…. It’s called renting .
There’s no give from them and believe me they know exactly what they are doing , they are a lot more calculating than their “free and easy” image suggests. All with professions of being “self-sufficient “.
@MariadeiMiracoli your friend is wise ,she knows she’s getting older , she wants to set herself up nicely but doesn’t want to pay, plain and simple. I bet she has plenty of people helping her and friends with a van , all hands on deck…. I know this all too well and it’s such hypocrisy and entitlement. Do not help her with this , there are people who are far more deserving.

But it’s ok for them to do this and rely on others to pay for their “ free lifestyle “? I remember we knew people who squatters , now they are older and have their own home they’d be horrified if someone moved in illegally while they were on holidays , I brought it up recently and they couldn’t engage at all or acknowledge it 🤦‍♀️

She sounds like the type who’ll suddenly ‘develop’ MH issues if she thinks they’ll get her what she wants.

I think that there might be more severe mental health issues here that you're not aware of. Deliberately sleeping rough on beaches or in a car isn't a usual choice. I suspect there's more to it.