Is my friend outrageously entitled in her expectations?

[MariadeiMiracoli]

I moved to my current town 18 years ago and got to know a woman renting a house on the cheap from a local who was off travelling. She was an interesting woman who'd given up her teaching job after a few years and gone travelling to SE Asia and South America, teaching English. Very laid back, getting by on benefits and subs from friends and family. Used to do a few hours at the local pub or shop for cash in hand and when she'd built up enough, buy an air ticket and take off to Hawaii or India for a month or two, picking up bar work or sleeping on the beach when she got there, always anticipating that someone would help her out.

About 12 years ago she met a man and moved in with him in Devon. It didn't work out and she ended up in a caravan and, when she turned 55, was housed in a flat in a 55+ development. But she's unhappy: there's noise, one of her neighbours drinks and plays music loud, another has serious MH issues. I visited her there a couple of years ago and thought it was actually rather nice: smart modern flat in a very desirable Devon town and no issues on the days I was there. I've said to her that even in the smartest private flats you can end up living next door to someone noisy but she says she's not prepared to put up with it.

She wants a bungalow with two bedrooms, so she can have a yoga/ meditation/ craft room. She wants a south-facing garden she can tend. It's got to be within walking distance of a decent town, but somewhere quiet and peaceful with a green outlook. And parking because she has a car. She's found a number of HAs (one here near me, where she used to live, one where she lives now and a third in the Bristol area) that have a tiny number of properties that fit her bill. All of them have been built for disabled people. She's been driving around inspecting them and knows precisely which ones she's after.

She's asked for my support to try and get one of her chosen properties in this area. I'm not sure what that will entail, but I suspect it'll involve spinning the truth to match the HA criteria. I've told her very clearly that I don't think there's any way she'll actually get one of these properties and she needs to compromise, but she says that if you don't ask firmly you don't get. Is this how it is now? I don't know what to make of it.

A friend of my sister's is like this....... sofa surfs, rejects jobs on the grounds that they go against her morals / ethics etc, yet claiming UC isn't against her principles!

Then, all of a sudden, despite having paid nothing to those she loafs off, she will find the money for a return flight to some zen workshop in the US or some organic retreat overseas.

Takers !!!!!

She still owes me travel costs to a concert I took her to 7 years ago !

Give a WIDE berth!

Yes it's all untrue and she's not eyeing up properties for the disabled then it's fine but if not, she must be very deluded to think she will get one with a few little embellishments - my son is severely disabled and it's no easy task I can tell her !

Wouldn’t we all like a house in a nice area with a nice garden (and someone else to pay for it!).

Don’t do anything you feel uncomfortable with. It sounds she’s used to people helping her without question, but doesn’t mean you have to be complicit.

I have no idea whether MH issues count. When we met, I'd just managed to buy the house I still live in and have, fortunately, not needed to rely on public sector housing. I don't know how the system works.

No harm in 'helping' your friend - whatever that actually means - so long as you don't put yourself at risk of committing fraud, lying, bending truth or saying or doing anything illegal or untruthful, or get pressured to say or do anything you don't feel comfortable doing.

I hope your friend gets what she wants, but it might also be a useful exercise for her to understand that what she has now is actually pretty good and she might not be able to do better.

Sounds like she's away with the fairies a bit, unrealistic expectations, perhaps quite naive.

Why can’t she do Yoga / meditate in the bloody living room

Is she expecting you to lie on a statement / form

I would say I will help her but I won’t lie

She does not need a 2 bed place, she has been given plenty of help ( benefits) over the years and she should stop taking the piss

The reason why she has gotten this far without having a perm job is because she is a user, she is probably friends with loads of people and asks various people for little favours and rotates between them.

Sense of entitlement is staggering 😡

I would say sure but I'm not lying and if she still wants you to provide a statement or whatever you will but truthfully.

It's not untrue that she is connected to the community and you are part of that, but she is not disabled and certainly not to the extent of needing a bungalow. It is true that living next to drinking and excessive noise is not good for MH which she has had diagnosis and treatment for

Well, Devon Home Choice are like bulldogs when it comes to their properties, ain't no chance she would ever get anything but the bare minimum out of them.

Bungalows are massively popular (I work for a HA) and usually have waiting lists going into decades.

Some over 55 schemes are hard to let though, usually as they're not so modern but sounds like she is looking for something a bit better.

Re her needing an extra room due to depression, I can promise you that's a non starter. If she needs a live in carer, then she might qualify but medical proof would be required. But in my experience, every resident I speak to in our HA has depression and anxiety so it really doesn't get you a leg up.

You don't sound like much of a friend. You say she's helped you in the past but now you realise she's self-serving. I think she's had a life of adventure and now she's stuck in a depressing flat. So she's doing what she can to have a happier life because she feels she deserves it.

I think you should start being a better friend and stop getting the people of Mumsnet to validate your opinion. You know full well what people are like on here and what they think of people who choose a less conventional life. You're entitled to your opinion but don't cherry-pick your validation of that opinion.

I know a woman like this, single, in her 50s, has spent the majority of her life travelling, working cash in hand seasonal jobs, sofa surfing, living in a van etc but now she’s older, she wants a secure home she can grow old in, with chickens and some land to cultivate. She’s no way of paying for this herself but is busy trying to manifest it.

I hope your friend gets what she wants, but it might also be a useful exercise for her to understand that what she has now is actually pretty good and she might not be able to do better.
Sounds like she's away with the fairies a bit, unrealistic expectations, perhaps quite naive.

I can hear her saying to you what she said to me. Something along the lines of 'What's the problem with aiming for what you really want and what would bring you happiness, instead of just settling for what you're offered?'

My family are the sort who worked hard, lived modestly, had limited expectations and led lives that weren't dependent on the state unless in emergencies. Quite small lives: not much adventure. I watched this woman's different approach to life with interest, because she had taken a different path. That's it, really. We both seemed to accept each other's differences until now, when I realise that actually there are some things I can't accept.

She'd need to get a medical professional to state very clearly why she needed a 2 bed (and as someone else has said why a living room wouldn't suffice as a space for meditation, etc). Even if a HA or council accepted that she needed a 2 bed (unlikely), they still wouldn't offer her an adapted bungalow over someone who would be able to make use of those adaptations.

Thanks, this is informative. I've never had to use the public housing system so the rules are a mystery to me. It's a relief to know she's unlikely to get what she wants, which sounds mean. What I mean is that she won't get what she wants at the cost to someone who needs it more.

@MariadeiMiracoli

Well, as my dear late MiL used to say: "Want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled first".

I guess I'd be willing to give such a friend a truthful reference, but I certainly wouldn't lie or stretch the truth. To do so would implicate me in her fraud. So whereas I might say "She visits me in X area 2 to 3 times a month/year", I wouldn't say "She has a strong connection to the local community". I'd say "I am aware of a MH crisis during the Covid epidemic" but I wouldn't say "She has ongoing Mental Health issues".

Anyone who asks you to lie for them is not your friend. Especially when it comes to lying to get government assistance.

Oh another one. I know two women like that. One works intermittently because she falls out with everyone but she can always con money to go on expensive holidays and yet doesn't have a stable roof over her head. She expects to be bailed out constantly and gets very angry when it doesn't happen.

Another one has a stable job and goes on expensive holidays and was trying to groom several of us into her being our lodger because she doesn't want the expense of a mortgage. So we work and go without to buy a stable home and she expects to benefit from that. It's a bizarre way of thinking.

We all want a gorgeous home by the sea and an easy lifestyle. She won't get one of these bungalows and I wouldn't support her to get one.

I know people like this- both interpretations described in the thread! If she is more on the manipulative side, as pp said she will need to work harder to get the property she wants and I hope she doesn’t succeed.

If she’s more about karma then I think she’s in cloud cuckoo land in her hopes! She may be the sort of person who thinks that you get back what you put in- certainly it sounds as if she’s been a decent friend to the OP, helping out when needed and repaying loans in good time. I’ve no real problem with someone like that, if she was a teacher before she may have a tiny pension and will have paid into the system earlier in life, and probably not taken much out.

Yes, I agree. You aren't qualified, I assume, to give any medical statements (even if you are a doctor, you're not her doctor). So if she asks you to make a statement that's true, you can do it in good conscience, and if untrue, you just refuse.

Well, she’s right - if you don’t ask you won’t get. But I very much doubt she’ll get what she wants in this case. I wouldn’t support her in her application, I’d just nod and smile, if you want to stay friends.

She can ask. But I doubt she will get.
Do not get drawn into anything untruthful - the system will weed out lies.

And from the other side, I am assisting my father with moving into a small HA place at the moment. He has had to go through all sorts of assessments to qualify, evidence required, and be patient for many years for a 1 bed flat to come up, albeit 50 miles from where he currently lives and in an unpopular town.
I cannot see that someone asking for a second bedroom, in a disabled property, a bungalow, in a town of choice, south facing garden etc is going to get that without a 20 year waiting list...I bet they offer a one bed flat on an unpopular housing estate with some colourful neighbours. A life of not considering and saving for the future may be about to bite...

It's some years since I worked for a Housing Association but things are even tougher now. Nobody gets a second bedroom for yoga or meditation! I can't see why she would need any sort of reference from you, a HA will want medical evidence or previous landlord or proof of overcrowding etc. Your friend seems to be the sort of person who often lands on her feet - you do say when she has asked you for help she hasn't taken advantage. Hopefully she can manage her expectations or she's likely to be disappointed.

You know the annoying thing, she’ll probably end up getting somewhere half decent, as people like her normally do!

Is she already registered on the HA list? You don't just ask firmly and get. You have to apply to go on the waiting list. You have to provide a forrest of proof. You have to bid for properties every week and more than likely there will always be people with a higher priority, especially as she's adequately housed
You also can't pretend to be disabled. Again you need loads of proof.
I'm not sure what support you could give her but I wouldn't help her anyway. She doesn't sound a great person.

These type of men are usually charmers and generally good looking

They will find some stupid woman to put them up and look after them

Don't promise anything. Just tell the truth when the time comes. The rest isn't up to you. I'd be writing one-line or one-word replies to any questions asked.