AIBU to ask what you think should happen with Trans men?

[Akiddleydiveytoo]

OK, I know this is an emotive subject that people feel passionately about so I'm prepared to don my hard hat here in anticipation of the backlash I'm likely to receive. I'm genuinely not trying to be goady though - I am genuinely interested in trying to understand people's opinions on this.

Since the Supreme Court ruling last week there has been lots of discussion about trans women and the impact that the ruling has on their rights to access female only spaces. There has been less debate, however, on the impact that this ruling has on trans men. Surely, if it is ruled that trans women are men, then it follows that trans men are women and should, therefore use women's facilities.

Is this really what women want? A post op trans man who had undergone full gender reassignment surgery would, to ask intents and purpose have a male presenting body complete with muscles, body hair and penis. Would women really be comfortable sharing facilities with such a person. Similarly, should a post op trans woman with breasts and a vagina be forced to share facilities with biological men?

I fully understand and support the need for women to have female only safe spaces and disagree wholeheartedly with trans women competing against biological women in sports due to their genetic advantage but I'm not sure the SC ruling of last week is really the 'triumph' that women's rights activists claim it to be as it presents as many questions as it does answers. I also fear that this judgement will result in single sex spaces being lost altogether as service providers, unable (or unwilling) to comply with all of the legalities and complexities involved, just get rid of single sex provisions in favour of unisex/ gender neutral facilities.

As I said, I've seen lots of debate about this over the last week but, for me, I still have a ton of unanswered questions so I was just wondering what others opinions are.

yeah, don't think I fancy googling trans mens willies, actual willies are ugly enough never mind some weird thing made from a clitoris and some arm skin.

As others have said far more eloquently…no one is intimidated by trans men. They are not a threat to us at all.

I’m not worried that a trans man is going to hurt or me.

I don’t care if a trans man can see me getting changed into my swimsuit.

I am not at all concerned that a trans man is peeing in the cubicle next to me.

Why?

Because a trans man is a woman 🤷‍♀️

If you haven't heard of those people then you don't have even the most basic level of knowledge of this issue.

This 100 percent 👆 👏 👏 👏

Gender neutral is the only way forward. Disabled people have had to deal with it for ever.

You may as well get used to it, realistically there's no real alternative.

Have you read the judgment? So many folk are commenting on headlines and the utterances of TRAs..neither of which reflect what was written.

it just biology. Sex is real 🤦‍♀️

So men's women's and gender neutral?

One with a man sign, one with a woman sign and one with both.

I visited somewhere last year that had this. Three fully lockable doors that opened onto the main area. One with 🚹 one with 🚺 and one with 🚻.

It was by far the most sensible configuration that I've seen.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. This isn't something that I've researched before (never had an interest!) but I've found many resources in seconds which clearly state that trans men can have a functioning penis. Phalloplasty creates a penis and urethra (to enable urinating when standing) and a penile prosthesis can be successfully implanted after phalloplasty to enable an erection to permit sexual intercourse.
You may well have seen photo's of botched surgery, but to suggest that good surgery could only ever achieve "a useless tube of flesh that cannot function as a penis in any meaningful way" is just plain wrong. Please go and do more research - as I say, it took me seconds.

No. Most people - including relatively young children - can tell a man from a woman at first glance, regardless of size.

If you watch the women's 6 nations rugby it's pretty obvious straightaway that they are women and not men. (Although I've seen a couple of womens international rugby league players who may not be so clear cut - just like some well-know athletes).

TW trying too hard a dead giveaway.

Even Kathleen Stock pours cold water on that 48,000 total population figure, which arises from a poorly-worded question in the census.

It 'proved' that 1 in 100 people in Tower Hamlet is trans, and people with English as a second or third language were almost 5 times more likely to identify as trans, than native speakers. Only 10% of the UK population don't speak English as a first language, yet according to the census data they make up almost 1/3 of all trans people in the UK. The census 'proves' that Muslims are 3 times more likely to be trans than those with no religion. Adults that hadn't completed further education were 3 times more likely to be transgender than university graduates. Adults with dementia were more likely to identify as trans, than those without.

Yet the data on those attending gender clinics shows the absolute reverse of the above - more likely to speak English as a first language, more likely to have no religion, more likely to be educated to undergraduate status, more likely to be white, dementia is just a nonsense.

It's a total junk chart.

of course there is. People can comply with the law.

The suggestion is that, where possible there should be single sex spaces and in addition there should be unisex for those who don't feel that they want to be in the correct toilets for their sex.

There are all sorts of problems with only having unisex toilet provisions, which mostly affect women.

It is not equality to ignore women's needs, as the Supreme Court verdict confirms.

Men should never have been in women's single sex spaces in the first place, the judgement confirms that, they are the ones who need to 'deal with it'.

Being realistic.....

It'll end up being gender neutral, end of story. I'm thinking mostly of toilets admittedly but given the cost and lack of space in many situations most providers will go for the cheapest option or the line of least resistance if nothing else.

You don't have to have a crystal ball to see what'll happen.

Lordy, you’d barely have known before this week that transmen even existed – apparently no one gave a shiny shit about anything they got up to.

Now suddenly this week they’re all the talk.

Transmen will very likely continue using male toilets or female toilets just like they were before.

No man cares if a transman uses the male loos.

They’re also welcome in female loos, if that’s where they feel more comfortable.

How do you think risks are calculated?

ministry of justice data shows that 'trans women' sexually offend at significantly higher rates than 'cis' men. as you well know.

I would imagine that transmen ( women) are fully aware of all the unisex toilets in their local cafes , the fully enclosed toilets ( with basins, sanitary bins in safe, non female specific spaces )that open onto a public corridor and the fully enclosed 'toilet for everyone' toilets. I have sussed all these out recently because I often have 2 grandchildren with me and need a space all 3 of us, a potty and a pushchair, can get in at once. There are lots of them in my small city. If we are going to a cafe without one of these spaces in it we pop in m and s or the library first. Male toilets are always disgusting. I cannot imagine a woman wanting to go in there to make a point that they are now a man. Unlike transwomen whose whole being is about making the point that they are a women ( not ).

At this rate they will just get rid of public toilets and we will all just need to schedule or toileting for when we are at home!

No, a surgically created penis cannot ejaculate (which should be pretty obvious really as trans men/biological women don't produce sperm). However, a trans man can urinate through it and get an erection to enable sexual intercourse.

Were those resources created by clinics and medics who make their living from providing phalloplasty surgery?

Oh.my.god. Why did you make me do that 🤢

No, other countries just don't think women have the right to say no to men.

yes, accessible toilets will become unworkable while men can just unzip and piss wherever--as it was in the beginning so it shall be forever and ever, handmaidened along by idiot leftist women amen.

You can't urinate through a dildo or a rabbit. 🙄