AIBU to ask what you think should happen with Trans men?

[Akiddleydiveytoo]

OK, I know this is an emotive subject that people feel passionately about so I'm prepared to don my hard hat here in anticipation of the backlash I'm likely to receive. I'm genuinely not trying to be goady though - I am genuinely interested in trying to understand people's opinions on this.

Since the Supreme Court ruling last week there has been lots of discussion about trans women and the impact that the ruling has on their rights to access female only spaces. There has been less debate, however, on the impact that this ruling has on trans men. Surely, if it is ruled that trans women are men, then it follows that trans men are women and should, therefore use women's facilities.

Is this really what women want? A post op trans man who had undergone full gender reassignment surgery would, to ask intents and purpose have a male presenting body complete with muscles, body hair and penis. Would women really be comfortable sharing facilities with such a person. Similarly, should a post op trans woman with breasts and a vagina be forced to share facilities with biological men?

I fully understand and support the need for women to have female only safe spaces and disagree wholeheartedly with trans women competing against biological women in sports due to their genetic advantage but I'm not sure the SC ruling of last week is really the 'triumph' that women's rights activists claim it to be as it presents as many questions as it does answers. I also fear that this judgement will result in single sex spaces being lost altogether as service providers, unable (or unwilling) to comply with all of the legalities and complexities involved, just get rid of single sex provisions in favour of unisex/ gender neutral facilities.

As I said, I've seen lots of debate about this over the last week but, for me, I still have a ton of unanswered questions so I was just wondering what others opinions are.

Has it ever happened? Because that’s the way to establish true risk. Has it ever happened.

If those statistics over estimate the number of trans identified men in the population then the rate of sexual offending by trans identified men will be even higher than reported.

Well if we are being " obvious" then it should be " obvious" that you can not surgically create a penis on a woman

One of them: www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/phalloplasty-for-gender-affirmation

You will no doubt know that Katie Dolowtoski, who is a trans woman, sexually assaulted two girls in the toilets of a supermarket. I think that's two girls too many who have taken the hit from allowing trans identifying men into women's single sex toilets.

What's your number Bloozie?

Do you think girls like these are acceptable collateral damage to allow all men who say they are trans in?

Because I absolutely do not.

Don't forget you are siding with men like Katie who absolutely have done exactly what you are saying doesn't happen over the safety of women and children.

Are you misquoting the intro to some cheesy 90s/00s vampire drama? Because honestly, it would be more believable about vampires. No-one passes. No-one. Not ever. Even if they fool one or two people that they engage with, the vast, vast majority know the sex of people they see, instantly. Especially if they are moving. Humans can tell the sex of a walking human half a mile away, when only their silhouette is visible, just by their gait. Men and women have so many differences and some can be disguised, but as the great philosopher Shakira once said, the hips don't lie.

And do you think that clinics offering this treatment may be downplaying the risks somewhat and overplaying what can be achieved. They're not exactly neutral

No not a junk chart all you've done is prove that it underestimates the number of trans sex offenders per million as there's less trans people than the census claims 😄

where is all the money and space coming from for these extra facilities? Disabled people and Baby changing areas are already sharing.

If trans women get a toilet then trans men need one , that brings us up to 4 toilets. then we have disabled facilities, and a baby changing room because we can't give able bodied people 4 sets of bathrooms and are disabled people share woth nappy changing mums can we?

Fucking ridiculous. Can people please stop raping and murdering so we can fucking get back to the real world please. honestly. Toilets!

I actually agree with the quoted post by the way but come on now, it's getting too far.
no toilets for anyone soon I expect.

observe if they flip the fuck out and start screaming about nazi bigots, or quietly continue about their business.

Luckily, that won't impact transwomen (men) because they can just nip around the corner, flop their cock out and pee into a bush or up a wall.

For women, that will be more difficult.

MOJ stats for 2020 show 76 of the 129 male-born prisoners identifying as transgender (not counting any with GRCs) have at least 1 conviction of sexual offence. This ratio (76 out of 129) of transgender (MtoF) prisoners, is much higher than the ratio of male sex offender prisoners to general male prisoners. To me this proves that some men do in fact pretend to be transwomen, either to change to a female prison and/or to re-offend more easily.

Doesn't sound like an isolated incident to me. Create loopholes and bad players will exploit them.

Let's look at the bigger picture (pun intended).

Your photo shows transmen only, giving no idea of 'scale'. The second photo shows both transmen and transwomen, and I'm assuming the bloke in the middle is their doctor. See the difference? In the big wide world, transmen who look like men in carefully staged photoshoots will not look like men nearly so much. They'll be my height, or even smaller if they were young when they started on hormones (it closes the growth plates of the long bones , apparently).

And frankly, even your photo - look at the size of their hands. Testosterone is a powerful drug, but it doesn't change skeletons.
(Edited for spelling - I'm fussy)

As a pp said above a transman either passes and will use/continue to use the gents or they don’t pass and will be fine (physically) in the ladies

i think being able to ‘tell’ if someone passes is a spectrum, some people can always tell and some people can’t 🤷🏻

But how will you know if the man in front of you in the women’s toilet is genuinely trans and been forced in there by the SC, or saying that he is so that he can now easily get in there unchallenged?

My issue with it, is preditors will play wolf in sheep's clothing. Men will claim to be trans woman, to gain access to these spaces. To then commit crimes which before you would guard yourself agent. Make it a norm and you don't have the gage, everyone is welcome so you cant discern. It opens a door to crimes that happen because there is an opportunity. It's that item stolen because it wasn't locked away.
I don't feel its safe for woman and children, so many rights woman have had to fight for and their safety.
Make a third trans bathroom, and for those that have had surgery while that is a bit different.

In the old days, if i saw a women who looked even vaguely ’ manly’ i would assume they were a woman and mind my own business

cos why the fuck would an actual man be in the ladies bogs!?!

You mean some men lie in order to gain access to women?
Wow

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not particularly worried about the possibility of being raped by someone of roughly equivalent strength and size to myself, who then has to manually inflate their penis before they can use it.

Of all the things that are never gonna happen, that one is never gonna happen the most.

As long as they're not coming in the actual cubicle with me, I couldn't care less either way.

Using statistics.

If there was one attack by a transwoman last year and this year there were two attacks, that’s a 100% increase.

If there was one attack by a transwoman last year and this year there were 9 attacks, that’s a 800% increase.

I didn't say anything about "risk" - there's risk with any surgery, particularly surgery as radical as this. However, if phalloplasty never had the desired outcome, then it would have died out, surely? In any case, since 87-96% (sex-aggregated) transsexuals choose not to have radical (i.e. including genitals) surgery, it's unlikely phalloplasty surgery is carried out often. I'm just not clear why @BMW6 is accusing @DramaQueenlady of "lying" when a quick internet search shows otherwise.
Oh, and FWIW, I welcome the SC ruling and am glad it's been clarified that trans women (biological men) cannot legally enter female-only spaces, although I was always more concerned about the wider implications of the former confusion in areas like medical treatment of, and research for, females, sports and other competitions.

So you're not too worried about men who identify as a woman using you as a fetish prop then?

Because we know that some of them do exactly that?

There are also videos on social media of trans women masturbating in a cubicle next to a woman who is peeing. Or putting cameras under cubicles.

You absolutely sure that's OK with you?

OK, just to keep you happy, a "penis".