AIBU to ask what you think should happen with Trans men?

[Akiddleydiveytoo]

OK, I know this is an emotive subject that people feel passionately about so I'm prepared to don my hard hat here in anticipation of the backlash I'm likely to receive. I'm genuinely not trying to be goady though - I am genuinely interested in trying to understand people's opinions on this.

Since the Supreme Court ruling last week there has been lots of discussion about trans women and the impact that the ruling has on their rights to access female only spaces. There has been less debate, however, on the impact that this ruling has on trans men. Surely, if it is ruled that trans women are men, then it follows that trans men are women and should, therefore use women's facilities.

Is this really what women want? A post op trans man who had undergone full gender reassignment surgery would, to ask intents and purpose have a male presenting body complete with muscles, body hair and penis. Would women really be comfortable sharing facilities with such a person. Similarly, should a post op trans woman with breasts and a vagina be forced to share facilities with biological men?

I fully understand and support the need for women to have female only safe spaces and disagree wholeheartedly with trans women competing against biological women in sports due to their genetic advantage but I'm not sure the SC ruling of last week is really the 'triumph' that women's rights activists claim it to be as it presents as many questions as it does answers. I also fear that this judgement will result in single sex spaces being lost altogether as service providers, unable (or unwilling) to comply with all of the legalities and complexities involved, just get rid of single sex provisions in favour of unisex/ gender neutral facilities.

As I said, I've seen lots of debate about this over the last week but, for me, I still have a ton of unanswered questions so I was just wondering what others opinions are.

OK have found Maya's post now - she says that there are circumstances in which transmen can be prevented from using women's facilities - hope it works this time:

Maya Forstater on X: "The answer in the judgment is that the Equality Act exceptions mean that both sex discrimination and gender reassignment discrimination prohibitions are disapplied so a service provider can lawfully exclude both ways. https://t.co/5Ij3tapQn0" / X

As I said google it again. Many transgender men have successfully had bottom surgery, and with additions have a fully functional penis! And a full sex life. Don't post rubbish on other people's comments when you have only researched the downside!

Time for the slide again I see

You are lying.

So go onto Google, type in can a transgender man have a fully working penis. I have copied straight from there. Apology when you're ready, creepy person.
Yes, transgender men can have a fully working penis through phalloplasty surgery, which creates a new penis and urethra. During the third stage of phalloplasty, a urologist can implant an erectile prosthesis to enable erections. This device can be either an inflatable prosthesis that is inflated by a pump or a malleable rod, but the inflatable prosthesis is more common.

I have never heard of this - do you have a link?

Speaking as a man who fully understands why a lot of women don't want biological men/TWs in women's single sex spaces, I think the difference is that I suspect almost all men wouldn't give a shit about biological women/TMs being in men's single sex spaces.

Men basically aren't going to feel threatened by the presence of TMs in their changing rooms.

So in that sense the issue of TMs in men's spaces is an entirely different issue in practice from TWs in womens spaces. Men don't feel threatened and they are unlikely to complain. (Although a few might I suppose).

Now whether TMs would feel safe in men's single sex spaces is also a different issue. But I suppose if you've "decided" to be a TM it comes with the territory.

I assume that TM - like TW - might face some opposition from women to using women only spaces, depending on how far down the road of transition they've gone.

I think really the only workable solution is to provide separate single sex spaces for men and for women based on biological sex, and then provide a third unisex or mixed space for those TWs and TMs who can't or don't want to use either of the other two. (And if biological men and women want to use that unisex or mixed space then they can and good luck to 'em!)

Laughable. That's certainly not a "fully functioning" penis any more than a strap-on dildo is. Or a Rampant Rabbit.

You are deluded. Creepy person.🙄

PS
Does the "penis" come with a bottle of fake jizz to pump through the fake urethra?? Doesn't it all get terribly complicated with the pump to facilitate any kind of fake erection? Can it all be done with one hand or does "sex" have to be doggy style so the "man" has both hands free to use all the apparatus?

Dr Upton in the Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife case admitted under oath that he would treat a female patient who had specifically requested a female doctor. So he is willing to lie about his sex and treat females without their consent

Quoting myself because my image was cropped for some reason so trying again

So not a functioning penis, then! Functioning penises maintain erections through blood flow, not a bicycle pump. It’s this absolute denial of reality that makes TRA so difficult to take seriously.

Gezus, better than what you'd have them have! Of course it's not a penis they'd have if born male, but not the statement you made. Must be very sad that you cannot accept you've been proven wrong. I wont make any further comments if you post again.

They can have an approximation of a penis created using flesh and skin from their arms and legs. They then have a pump inserted into one of their fake testicles that allows them to essentially pump up a balloon placed in the ‘penis’ o that it stands to attention. They cannot produce sperm or ejaculate, or get an erection, but they can ‘mould’ the flesh into an approximation of an erections and penetrate someone with it.

So yeah, describe that as a fully functional penis and a full sex life if you like.

It’s not about ability to tell it’s about patients right to dignity and autonomy and the honesty of those treating them.

if a woman request a woman carer, nurse, doctor etc that is what they should have - not a man

I totally agree. Single-gender spaces for transmen and transwomen are definitely the way to go and always have been (and might have been on the way to being achieved by now if TRAs hadn't deliberately focussed their energies in a way to cause division and anger rather than cohesion and understanding).

Your missing the point. The comment BMW6 made is they don't have a penis, no most have a dangle bit they can pee out and can use a pump to blow it up, so it goes hard and they get some sort of pleasure from. Call it what you will, most folk would just call it a penis for the sake of argument sake.

Why are you lying? This has never happened. I can show you pics of what has happened but think I'd get banned.
Proof checked for pictures but should explain what is possible and what is fantasy
biologyinsights.com/metoidioplasty-vs-phalloplasty-key-surgical-differences/

I'm sorry but imagine voluntarily putting yourself through this

I take it you've never heard of Katie Dolatowski then.

Yeah the pain must be horrendous.

PMSL it was YOU who claimed (lying) that transmen could have a fully functioning penis!

As for me having been proved wrong - how the fuck can you claim that when you say "Of course it's not a penis they'd have had if born male" - it was YOU that claimed they did!!!

As for making no further comments, I think that's very wise.

Wait, a penis that goes into erection with sexual arousal and ejaculates sperm?

No of course not. The poster was LYING

No, it is not a penis “for the sake of argument”, any more than a wooden leg is a real leg “for the sake of argument”. It just categorically isn’t what you’re claiming it is. A penis is a male reproductive organ, not a tube of tissue taken from an arm. Facts and reality matter. Redefining terms to suit your agenda is a sign that you cannot argue logically.

I doubt after undergoing medical FGM there is much pleasure or sensation

certainly not functional in the sense of an actual penis