He no longer wants kids

[Lizzielost]

I’m a bit lost here so was hoping for some opinions on my current position please.

I’m 41 and have been with my partner, 39, for 8 years (1 engaged). We are currently renovating our first home together and I love him to bits. He is the only person who has ever completely understood me and he has helped me to grow so much while we’ve been together. I’ve also supported him and helped him to grow into someone who is more secure and aware of his own value. He is a kind person and thinks of me a lot.

From the very start, we both wanted children. We’ve had so many conversations about it that it was never really considered to be an issue, until last year. My partner has been through some difficult times over the last 2-3 years (including the loss of a parent and an increase in narcissistic behaviour from the remaining parent as well as significant work stress) and he has been in a very dark place at times. Now that we are finally in a position where we have some security to try for a child (as my age is already against me somewhat) he has decided that he no longer wants a child.

He didn’t tell me outright for some time. It’s been a topic of conversation for 16 months and he only admitted it at the end of last year. His response has always been either just a quiet grunt, ‘ok’ or no response at all with a look akin to a deer caught in the headlights. In the meantime I have to mix with his friends and all of their children and he doesn’t seem to see how difficult that is for me.

I had a coil which I was struggling with (pain, heavy periods etc) and he suggested getting it removed about 2.5 years ago and trying for a baby then. By the time I’d managed to have it removed 4 months later though, he’d changed his mind and I went on the pill. It doesn’t agree with me (moods, loss of desire etc) and this also seems to have caused some issues between us, even though there is little I can do to change that without coming off the pill.

We talk about it but I usually end up upset and, to try to pacify me, he says that we can try. I know he is only saying that and doesn’t mean it though so I ask him to speak about it the following day, when things have calmed, and he doesn’t. This has happened at least 10 times now and it is hurting.

If he had told me properly about his change of heart then I would not have bought the house with him. Really, I had little idea of how things had changed with him.

Over the last few days things seem to have come to a head. I just can’t cope with him almost playing games now and, after being upset a couple of nights ago and sleeping on the couch, I’ve told him that we can’t continue and that we need to split before I hate him for this. The situation is difficult, with the house renovation, and we’ll probably end up having to keep going with this for a bit until we can sell it and move on.

My head is telling me I’m overreacting and that I can’t leave him as he is everything to me. I just can’t keep being dragged down by this baby thing as it is taking over my
life and I’m beginning to hate him for it. It is, to me, a point of fundamental incompatibility and I feel betrayed. My mind is reeling - do we go for counselling to see if we can deal with this? Is it dead in the water now, even with the love on both sides? I can’t see up for down at the minute and I don’t know whether I’m talking myself round, only to be stuck again. I probably won’t go on to have children anyway if we split. I’m quite shy and finding someone new to trust in that way probably won’t be doable in time for me to try for a child. I just don’t know what to do at the moment. Has anyone got any thoughts on this please?

I think you should have a deep think about whether you really truly want children OP. If it was a strong driving force, you would have been pregnant years ago ... there's never an ideal time for kids.

I think as you're now in your 40s you realise you're in the 'last chance saloon' and this is clouding your judgement, along with hormones. Our diminishing egg supply sometimes makes us behave like this, which makes perfect sense in nature.

I don't think all the blame is on your partner. And I wouldn't leave someone I love and that I got on well with for the very small chance of a pregnancy with someone else at your age.

My priority here would be for him to now take responsibility for contraception! Stop damaging your health, mental, hormonal and otherwise, if he doesn't want kids he can take the lions share of the responsibility for not creating them.

Not disagreeing with you, but a fertility clinic would see women who were struggling to conceive so that would skew the figures somewhat. My DGM’s youngest sibling was born when her mother was 51. But she had ten healthy children (and for all we know lost others), so no fertility problems there.

Move fast, use whatever funds you have to go the donor route. Read up on single mothers by choice. It's scary but completely do-able if it is what you want.

Why make the OP feel worse about her situation. I was fortunate to never have been in this type of position although I know many women who became naturally pregnant in their 40s despite statistics. This includes my auntie who had her 3rd baby at 44.

You will never know unless you start trying OP & the sooner the better.

Even if that 5% is true (I'll check it out) it means that within 10 months half of all women of 40 would be pregnant.

And that is obviously an average or median percentage.

YANBU. He hasn’t been open and honest with you. He’s also left it to you to deal with contraception. If he doesn’t want to have kids he should consider his contraception options.

You don’t say why he’s had an apparent change of heart. Have you asked him? That’s what a counsellor would do. Was he being dishonest from the start and telling you what he thought you wanted to hear? Is it that he was never really felt comfortable with kids but said it as he presumed he would later Iife, but he still doesn’t? If so, he’s still not been 100% honest.

If he did genuinely want kids but now doesn’t, then what’s changed? Is he worried about his lack of parental support? Is it because he’s not over the grief of losing his parent and worries he won’t be supportive enough to you if he falls apart? Basically, does he have fears that he could overcome with honesty, reassurance and support? Is it doable or fixable?

Or has he decided he doesn’t want children with you for some reason? Even though he loves you. Maybe, having lived with you or lost his parent it’s brought home to him you’re not as compatible as he at first thought. Does your age worry him in some way? Risks of abnormalities, pregnancy or birth problems? Your energy levels? Again, many of these worries could be overcome.

The very least he owes you is a full explanation and whether it’s down to fears that could be overcome if he wanted to. But is being closed off. Counselling may help if it means he’ll be asked to explain his reasons, needs and preferences for you to hear. Even if it gives you clarity to move forward without him.

If he really doesn’t want kids, or want kids with you, don’t give up on having children if that’s what you want. Lots of women have kids in their mid 40s with no problems. And it’s perfectly possible to find someone and trust again. Or you could have a child alone with a donor father.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to stay childless with someone who’d messed me around for so long if he definitely didn’t want kids with me. But some people might prefer to stay in the relationship over having children or because there’s less chance of having them anyway.

I have records of my family tree going back 200 years and more.
Most women then were having a child every 2 years from 20 up to around 44.
Many of them had 10 children, some 11.

You mean “Don’t worry on my great gran’s fertility front.”

I think him stringing you along is unforgivable. Especially given your age.

I imagine even if he did ‘give in’ and try for a baby, if you fall pregnant he’s going to be potentially very resentful and unsupportive.

You have been together 8 years you both wanted children ,why didn’t you try years ago .This should of been sorted ages ago not now your 41.

That's not all you're saying. You literally said: "so don’t worry on the fertility front"

That's terrible and deeply harmful advice based on one woman's experience from maybe 100 years ago.

Your great-gran was the exception and not the rule.

Not at all!

OP, it is likely to be a harder road to have DC now. I had DS2 at almost 41 despite poor ovarian reserve since my late 20s - but I did have 3 mcs in my later 30s. My friend had her DC at 41 and 44 but also had a mc. Basically you’re likely to have many poor quality eggs at this age so it might well come down to how many mcs you can deal with. My consultant at Liverpool Womens spelled it out. If MCs get easier to deal with, keep going as you might get lucky next time - as I did.. If harder, it’s probably best to stop.

I wish you all the very best.

It’s not quite that straightforward.

Roughly 44% would fall pregnant within 12 months, but of those positive pregnancy tests, roughly 1 in 2 will end in miscarriage, and 1 in 85-100 of those babies will have chromosomal abnormalities.

@Lizzielost id split because you are starting to hate/resent him. I'd look elsewhere or try alone. You have both been kicking the can further down the road. I have friends like this and the women really resent their partners whereas really they should have left years ago.

It is harder having kids older, youd need to consult fertility experts. My consultant says he sees women in their 50s but odds are these are donor eggs.

Dont stay with someone who clearly has no interest in having kids.

Why accuse people of making OP feel worse? I think at this stage it would benefit OP to be aware of the facts , the way some people are talking on here is that she could start TTC now immediately after coming off birth control and magically conceive straight away, with a healthy pregnancy that results in a healthy birth.. it is not the reality of her situation at all and pretending otherwise is just giving false hope.

Encouraging her to start TTC when her partner has made his wishes about having children clear (and he has said as much for the last 18 months) is quite frankly ridiculous. Not to mention that as well as forcing a child on someone who doesn't want them, a person who has quite crippling MH problems and has at least one narcisstic parent themselves.. what part of that sounds okay?

I'll ask what others have asked as well: do you really want children? If yes, then make that it a reality and start TODAY. You get off the pill and start calling donor organisations. TODAY. You don't have a minute to lose. You can leave him or stay with him, choose whatever works for you, but do not wait for this man to make up his mind, or change his mind, or whatever. Absolutely do not waste time on counselling - you do not have the time! You are 41, so the earliest you MIGHT have a baby is 42. Counselling you should have done 8 YEARS ago! Go and become a mother, if that is what you want, but you cannot wait for this man! (If the answer is no, then just stay with him and no need for counselling either, I suppose, and this is coming from someone who is generally very much pro counselling.) Honestly OP what have you been waiting for all this time? Has no one ever given you a reality check and told you that the chances of getting pregnant dramatically decrease, already from 35? Don't listen to other mums who say 'oh I got pregnant at 43 without any issue' - they are the exceptions, not the rule. Please go and follow your dream, if having a baby is what you want, but do not waste any more time and get on with it!

Not quite as the percentage chance is then dropping every month (after 40). At age 43 it’s around 1-2%. I can only repeat that I worked in fertility for over ten years.

@mintandpistachio sorry to hijack the thread but I just wanted to say I was in this very position a month ago (although thankfully I still had my own place, but we were living in his) at 38.5. I've now left him and am pursuing donor sperm to make embryos.. my clinic were surprisingly ok when I informed them about the change in plan. They only wanted to check I wasn't married to my partner etc as that would have meant I could not proceed on my own as easily. My partner had not been fully keen/ready for trying for a baby but we had decided to create embryos together to give ourselves more time to get to the "ready now for a baby" stage without hopefully running out of time. But then he decided he wasn't ready.. so after a lot of painful conversations I've ended the relationship. It was hell but even after 3 weeks or so it's getting easier...

I'm obviously not planning on implanting just yet as I'm still dealing with the emotions from a break up, and I am holding out hope that I might meet someone sooner and still have the chance of a family together. But I want options if, say, in a year I'm no closer to that and then I'll go ahead as a single mum.

to the OP and to you @mintandpistachio , I think you really need to think how you will feel without children in 10 years if the relationship ends. There's no guarantee you'll be with this same person (interesting in all of these situations it seems like the partner has not married you? same here - maybe also an indication of commitment issues!) in 10 years but if you have a baby (and are a good mum!) then you'll have that relationship and love for the rest of your life. Which one can you really live without?

I would (and am) want to do everything to see if I can have children and not delegate that power to someone. Then at least if it hasn't worked out for me, I know at least I did everything I could. I wouldn't want to look back with regrets wishing I'd tried. Are you likely to regret having stayed with the partner in 5 years time or regret having left and tried to have children? I also tend to think that if the relationship is really meant to be, then maybe if the children stuff doesn't work out then maybe they'll still be there in a few years time too!

OP just my two cents worth but if you do want children I would get private fertility tests and counselling if I were you, now - presumably you are still menstruating regularly at least? - to get an idea of how the land lies there.
Female fertility can vary wildly. The majority of women are fertile in their very early forties, but a small cohort of women start to have fertility drop from the very late twenties and conversely a small cohort of women stay fertile well into their forties. Until you try you can't know for sure where you are, but tests can give some indication.
Committing (or not) to these tests should help clarify for yourself how you feel about wanting a baby.

It doesn’t help OP to be unrealistic about the odds. If she wants to be a mum and she is 41, I would tell her to get herself checked out. Then she can make an informed choice about the options.

If you got together early 30s and 'from the start... always wanted children' then something here doesn't add up. I get that you say you were waiting to get secure enough to have kids, but you know that your 30s is the time to TTC if you want kids - which you both did 'from the start' so how was this conversation never getting from abstract to tangible ttc by age 35, or 36? If you were staying on contraception, that's an active choice you're making not to have kids and then he even articulated that choice and you went along with it. So it's not that 'he no longer wants kids' - he's never demonstrably wanted them and you've either lied to yourself or not been that bothered through the whole of your 30s until age 41. I think you have to wonder how much you do really want them, because it doesn't seem to have been a priority for you either. If I'm wrong and it truly is, I agree with others advising donor route asap. But if you're dithering and want to stay with him, then admit to yourself that you're okay without having kids and that it's not a matter of him hoodwinking you, you've both gone this route by design (him) or default (you).

People telling a woman in her 40s to skip off to a sperm bank to have a child is dumb founding.

Very optimistically she’d be having a baby at 43 and single. Almost guaranteed to be an only child. So someone will be 10 with a (at best) 53 year old Mum, no father and no siblings…but as long as OP gets the baby she wanted who cares about what fair for kid right?

OPs only just now been able to purchase a property with her fiancé so I’m assuming would struggle to on her own? But yeah sure, get that strangers sperm in you TODAY OP.

OP has had 9 years to have the baby she supposedly desperately wanted. She has chosen not to. Let’s stop pretending she didn’t have a choice. She did. Her partner has made is so clear he wasn’t keen on parenthood and she chose to ignore the warning signs despite her age. She should not have required repeated explicit communication that her partner didn’t want kids. Anyone can see that he did not want kids from her words and his actions.

Maybe she choose not to listen

He told you two years and one month ago - after you had to go on the Pill, after the removal of your coil for the purpose of getting pregnant, the discussion about which took place 2.5 years ago, that he did not want to have children. You did not hear him.

A year ago, under the new regime of him not having children, you agreed to marry him. These are the terms of your future with him you agreed to by getting engaged. Did you understand that?

Is a date set for the wedding?

Will he come out of this grieving fug in 5 years, the pair of you still unwed, straight into the vagina of another woman, who he'll immediately get up the duff?

He's not at your stage of life. His clock is not ticking. He's feeling the final countdown from you, but not his own death knell on fertility. He's got plenty of mileage left before his hard no on kids forever. He's allowed to change his mind, and he's said no at this point. So that's a hard no to kids with you, because time is very much ticking for you. So you're done with him.

You would never, never be able to move past the fact he made the decision not to have kids on your behalf. Even if you stayed together. It would always be there. His selfish, barnacle-behaviour that kept you hanging. And your inability to hear his underlying message.

Acknowledge the collective wisdom accrued by many of your MN friends here and cut your losses now. Get out, get a fertility MOT, and enjoy your life howsoever it goes on from here. You deserve an amazing life, with or without children.