Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

Must be really frustrating for TRAs that women no longer care about being called bigots or TERFS or old or ugly or whatever.
Neither do the courts.

Your 'aunt' may have delivered to me.

No issue, trans people have the right not to be discriminated against in access to work.

It would be awful if they were.

But that doesn't extend to your aunt using the women's toilets in the Warehouse as she's a man and workplaces have to provide single sex spaces.

I think I follow this account on Twitter.

I know. I'm SO impressed with the measured & compassionate statement put out by the Communist Party.

And I cracked up at someone's response to it...

Lucky you to have never experienced sexual violence, harassment or physical abuse at the hands of men - but those of us who have wish to avoid them in situations when we are vulnerable and make no apologies for that.

And for simply wanting vagina only spaces we are hateful bigots. As if it's not the bare minimum we should be able to expect.

*edited as potentially misunderstood quoted post.

“I believe in equality and HUMAN rights”

There may be your issue.

Feminists are not campaigning for strict ‘equality’ in that sense. They campaign for equity to deliver equality of opportunity.

Therefore, the focus is on female people having single sex spaces. It means that they have the safety they need to participate in public life.

Historically the matter, Which was a new a rising problem, was being dealt with when the General Election was called. At that point nothing new can go through Parliament.

After seeing your comment I think I misread the previous one. I thought they meant that it's pathetic we have to argue about same sex toilets which I agree with, as it shouldn't even have been a thing in the first lace.

PP can you clarify?

The fact you think it was to just pee with other vaginas takes pathetic a bit higher to be fair (along with the lack of comprehension).

I’ve experienced both sexual and physical violence at the hands of men. Transwomen don’t make me feel unsafe. Men can be arseholes and manage perfectly well to commit revolting acts of violence every day without transitioning to be women.

Not just about being unsafe. I dont want a man to give me a pap smear. I dont think he may assault me..But I still dont want a man to give me intimate care
The NHS was heading that way.

As MALES, transwomen make me and most other women feel unsafe.

And almost none of them actually 'transition'. In fact, putting on a dress is the maximum most do.

But the problem for you is the law is binary- you can’t have a foot in both camps. You can’t have a ‘well in this situation’ it should be x but in this situation it should be ‘y’. So you might feel I don’t see the toilets being an issue and you all are bigots for raging on this issue. let’s make an exception to be nice and treat trans women as women. That exception would have to apply to everything though so men in women's sports which hopefully most people are wising up to being a massive injustice for girls and women. as much as many people don’t like the supreme court’s judgement, it was the only one that worked. Everything else ended up being nonsensical.

the campaign to pee in a cubicle with a door safe in the knowledge that only people with vaginas might be in the adjoining toilet is just about the most pathetic thing I have ever heard

it was in response to this comment - saying women are pathetic for wanting to ensure there are no men in women’s toilets

I find it odd that you can’t understand some women might need that to feel safe @Mumble12 just because you don’t

This 100%.

If some men are women for the purpose of single sex toilets then we can't very well argue they are not women when it comes to refuges etc.

The court has ruled that trans women are men.

So that should be the end of the discussion regardless of what the space is, if you believe women matter and should have rights.

The number of people arguing against this still is quite shocking!

Exactly- I don’t want to be strip searched by a man, intimately examined by one, imprisoned in a cell for 22 hours a day with one or sleep next to one on a hospital ward

Why do you think males suddenly become devoid of risk because they say they are a woman, and all usual safeguarding measures should be shelved? Such a naive stance. Do you not think there are harmful trans women in the world?

@MrsMappFlint

no one is saying your aunt, whatever their anatomy, cant call themselves your aunt.

They just can’t use womens single sex spaces.
Their gender is their business
Their biology defines their sex and the spaces they can use, how they are treated in a medical environment and by the police for strip searches and the class they will be put in for statistics relating to pay etc

Women really don’t care what they call themselves. Women care about their own sex based rights and protections.

Your term terf is hateful

And yet some do and use it as a further way to assault women. That's not a made up scenario.

I also don't see how transitioning is simply wearing the other sexes stereotypical attire. If you think you're a woman then why do you want to keep your penis?

Transmen who are biologically women, have a life time experience of being a woman. If anyone is at risk from being assaulted in male only spaces it's them, as they have female reproductive parts (unless they have fully transitioned).

It's not transmen (women) who have been leading this obsession with not having a third space.

Feminists are inclusive. This strand of ‘feminism’ is exclusionary and simply plays into the hands of the patriarchy. The ruling changes little for women but makes life a lot more shit for people who struggle already.

I know I won’t change anyone’s mind here but I’m thankful that most young people are more open and accepting.

"...the same as a young girl or boy who realises they were born in the wrong body (which tends to happen completely naturally by about the age of 4, and causes great distress)"

Really? Am I wrong in thinking that there has been research saying that most of the children who have these feelings grow up (or, at least, used to grow up) and become reasonably well adjusted adult gay men or lesbians?

It seems that actually going through puberty tends to sort this out for most.

I'm not denying that gender dysphoria does exist for a very small percentage but I would suggest that these are very very small numbers indeed.

The number is tiny compared to the number of women in this country who need protection.

They who shout the loudest are not always right.

Feminists are inclusive of what?
Men?
Why spout such obvious nonsense?

Puberty sorted it out for me. If you had asked me between the ages of 5-14 I'd have told you I wanted to be a boy. I was desperate to be a boy. Then puberty hit and those feelings went away almost overnight. The feelings of wanting to be a boy was mostly because of how boys were treated, how they got to play football and the clothes they wore. It was nothing to do with me being born in the wrong body. I dread to think how much my life would have been ruined if I'd been born 20 years later.