Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

1000 replies

Kindersurprising · 22/04/2025 12:15

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

Use men’s or women’s toilets based on biological sex, minister says

Supreme Court ruling must be applied ‘right across the board’, Bridget Phillipson stresses as Sir Keir Starmer hails judgment as a ‘welcome step forward’

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
cardibach · 22/04/2025 18:37

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:32

Ha. Start a new thread entitled “who thinks trans women exists” and i guarantee over 90% will say they don’t!

No, they won’t. Because they plainly do. They are just a subset of men, not of women and lots of TrAs and others say that saying the6 are a subset of mean means denying their existence. It doesn’t. They exist. They are a subset of men. I haven’t seen anyone say anything to suggest that they think trans women are a figment of the imagination.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/04/2025 18:37

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 22/04/2025 18:32

I don't get the whole issue of toilets being SUCH a big deal - all toilets are cubicles, with shared sinks.

On the weekend, a trans woman was in the queue for a bra fitting and no one batted an eye lid.

What's the difference?

Why does a trans woman need a bra fitting?

ChkChkBoom · 22/04/2025 18:38

Annascaul · 22/04/2025 18:34

Haven’t you read the bloody judgement? All women are born women, there are no “other kind”.
The word woman doesn’t need any further qualification.

It'll take time for the wrong that has been righted to filter through the psyche of those who fully embraced the notion that a woman can have a penis. The word cis is now redundant, and will fall out of usage.

Silversixpenny · 22/04/2025 18:38

ButtermilkYellow · 22/04/2025 13:09

This also means trans men have to use the women’s toilets.. I’m sure if we wait a few months there’ll be plenty of threads complaining about beardy men in the ladies because they were born with a uterus.

I really don't think so. I think women would definitepy accept transmen, not least to keep them safe from going into the gents.

See, toilets really are sex-based safe spaces.

inamarina · 22/04/2025 18:38

MissDoubleU · 22/04/2025 14:39

It isn’t even about masculinity. I have several fully fledged vagina and uterus having female friends who are 6 feet plus and they have all experienced hatred and unwanted questioning based on apparent “large hands” or some other apparent indication they must actually be trans women. Imagine just nipping to the loo and having security called because you have PCOS and more hair than apparently women are allowed to have.

Congratulations though, because to make some women feel safe now anyone that someone may feel might not be female enough doesn’t.

Where are all these 6 feet plus women coming from all of the sudden? And all of them have been questioned and harassed because people thought they were trans?
I see very tall women occasionally, who are yet very clearly female. I’m tall myself and I’ve never been questioned about my sex, not even once.
Of course that’s just my personal experience, just a bit surprised that all the tall women you know have been mistaken for trans.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/04/2025 18:39

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:27

See this is what I mean - how can I have a reasonable discussion with you about this issue if you don’t know what one of the most key words to do with this debate even means?! Cis means a woman who was born a woman. Eg. Not a trans woman. And you’re just going to go “well all women are cis cos there’s no such thing as a trans woman” blah blah blah. Denying the existence of an ever growing group of people won’t make them go away you know.

So cis woman means female woman then?

And woman means adult human female, which means cis woman means female adult human female?

This word appears to be completely superfluous.

Annascaul · 22/04/2025 18:40

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/04/2025 18:37

Why does a trans woman need a bra fitting?

No need at all other than validation.
He’ll know exactly what size his falsies are, given that they’re custom made.

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:41

ghostyslovesheets · 22/04/2025 18:06

@Roxietrees as a gay woman would you have a sexual relationship with a person with a penis - if the answer is no you know that’s transphobia right?

Oh geeeez. My sexual preference has nothing to do with being transphobic! That’s exactly the same as saying (assuming you are straight) - oh you won’t have sex with another woman so you must be homophobic 🤣 you might be, I don’t know, but a straight woman not being attracted to other women doesn’t make her homophobic!

Silversixpenny · 22/04/2025 18:41

PsychoHotSauce · 22/04/2025 13:17

Is it only (biological) women you label hysterical, or will you use the same choice of words to describe the TRA pushback on this?

As hysterical comes from or means "uterus" eg hystarectamy, then they have the etomology right for the female sex but are completely wrong at the same tine!

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 22/04/2025 18:41

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/04/2025 18:36

Did you ask everyone in the queue for their personal
thoughts?

No, of course not, but there were also males waiting on couches a few feet away from the queue as there are in most M & S lingerie areas.

Cubicles are private, so are people really opposed to sink areas being public areas?

BobbyBiscuits · 22/04/2025 18:42

Yeah, maybe they should.
My transman cousin uses the men's in pubs/restaurants etc. but he says he uses the cubicle. Purely because he hadn't got a dick so can't hygeincally use a urinal. Not that most dick owners are great with hygeinic toilet use!?

I am not fussed about toilets because I'm locked inside a cubicle. I don't need to see the other users' genetallia. I just don't think transwomen should be in women's wards, prisons, refuges or sport.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 22/04/2025 18:42

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 22/04/2025 18:32

I don't get the whole issue of toilets being SUCH a big deal - all toilets are cubicles, with shared sinks.

On the weekend, a trans woman was in the queue for a bra fitting and no one batted an eye lid.

What's the difference?

Nice try.

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:43

Gloriia · 22/04/2025 18:17

Oh they would surely?

What are you on about?

spannasaurus · 22/04/2025 18:43

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:41

Oh geeeez. My sexual preference has nothing to do with being transphobic! That’s exactly the same as saying (assuming you are straight) - oh you won’t have sex with another woman so you must be homophobic 🤣 you might be, I don’t know, but a straight woman not being attracted to other women doesn’t make her homophobic!

Are you saying that you wouldn't, have sex with a transwomen because you're a lesbian?

ghostyslovesheets · 22/04/2025 18:44

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:41

Oh geeeez. My sexual preference has nothing to do with being transphobic! That’s exactly the same as saying (assuming you are straight) - oh you won’t have sex with another woman so you must be homophobic 🤣 you might be, I don’t know, but a straight woman not being attracted to other women doesn’t make her homophobic!

But it does to TRAs if you don’t accept a trans woman as a gay woman you are transphobic ditto gay men

you know same sex attracted people

CantStopMoving · 22/04/2025 18:44

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 22/04/2025 18:41

No, of course not, but there were also males waiting on couches a few feet away from the queue as there are in most M & S lingerie areas.

Cubicles are private, so are people really opposed to sink areas being public areas?

And there lies the problem. It has been completely normalised that males can sit out side the cubicles where women are getting changed. When did this become acceptable?. It would never have happened 30 years ago. They would have been made to sit completely outside the changing rooms.

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:45

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/04/2025 18:23

The minority don’t get to overrule the majority.

No but they should be equal to the majority. Why do you think you’re better than other people?

Annascaul · 22/04/2025 18:46

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:41

Oh geeeez. My sexual preference has nothing to do with being transphobic! That’s exactly the same as saying (assuming you are straight) - oh you won’t have sex with another woman so you must be homophobic 🤣 you might be, I don’t know, but a straight woman not being attracted to other women doesn’t make her homophobic!

You must be aware than some male bodied people (complete with functioning penis) who are attracted to women insist that they are not only women, but lesbian women?
It would be considered transphobic indeed for you to reject their lady dick.

spannasaurus · 22/04/2025 18:46

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:45

No but they should be equal to the majority. Why do you think you’re better than other people?

Everyone uses the single sex spaces for their own sex - equal treatment for all

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/04/2025 18:47

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:45

No but they should be equal to the majority. Why do you think you’re better than other people?

Well that’s now how it works is it.

Trans people have the same rights as anyone else. Weren’t you aware of that? I don’t think I’m ‘better’ than other people. I should and now do have the right to go into women’s only spaces without a biological male being present. So that’s good .

cardibach · 22/04/2025 18:48

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:45

No but they should be equal to the majority. Why do you think you’re better than other people?

It’s not about better or even anyone’s wants. The judgement simply clarifies the law.
If you wouldn’t have a relationship with a trans woman then lots of TRAs would say you were transphobic. Anyway, the trans woman wants into your bed. Why are your wants more important? (I know why, obviously, but maybe think about the parallel with what you said. Hint: it’s about consent).

LobeliaBaggins · 22/04/2025 18:49

Transwomen have exactly the same rights as biological women

Helleofabore · 22/04/2025 18:51

Roxietrees · 22/04/2025 18:27

See this is what I mean - how can I have a reasonable discussion with you about this issue if you don’t know what one of the most key words to do with this debate even means?! Cis means a woman who was born a woman. Eg. Not a trans woman. And you’re just going to go “well all women are cis cos there’s no such thing as a trans woman” blah blah blah. Denying the existence of an ever growing group of people won’t make them go away you know.

The term 'cis' is meaningless because the term includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes that has any degree of sensitivity to any of the testosterone that body produces.

There is no word left for female people.

Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’ . When ^^ female means only a person of the sex category where that person's body has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether the body does, has or ever will produce those large gametes. ie that requires the presence of ovaries or ovarian tissue - never testes.

In fact, we now have examples of many male people declaring that they are female people. So even the word for female has become meaningless in that sense.

But 'cis' is a* *word that was repurposed from its original usage and is meaningless for the purpose of discussing female people in its current usage. It has been used in academic papers as well in an attempt at using inclusive language which then renders the papers meaningless because the term is not describing a unique grouping of human bodies, even when it claims to be doing just that.

To see how this works, we have been told that 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:
Cis
= (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **
and
= (3) Any person who has a female body^^
Trans
= (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

Therefore there is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is meaningless as a unique description for female people and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.

The other significant issue with ‘cis’ is that its very usage forcibly categorises someone into having a philosophical belief that they may or may not have. It is very problematic for those who do not have a ‘gender identity’.

In fact, to extrapolate it out : if ‘cis’ excludes those who do not ‘identify as having a gender aligned with the sex they were born’ then the trans gender community would be fucking huge. Because it would include everyone who doesn’t believe in gender identities at all. Not through deliberately self-categorisation as ‘agender’ but simply through rejection of anything to do with that philosophical belief that is the foundation for gender identity and the theories that shape those identities.

Because, the only commonality with all those claiming a transgender identity is philosophical belief. Not a medical 'problem' according to transgender people and academics and medical professionals who are transgender and shaping public awareness. No scientific and robustly established material facts.

So only philosophical belief.

And I would be pleased to know just what other philosophical belief should be given the power to shape a whole populations language to the extent that we are seeing these language changes being demanded?

If someone who was religious called me a non-believer, I cannot dispute that. Because it reflects my reality. I don’t believe in their religion so in their religion centred language that is what I am. It could be considered neutral in that respect. It doesn’t change my belief.

However, calling me ‘cis’ is not neutral. It falsely categorises my beliefs and is not a neutral act at all. Calling me ‘cis’ coercively forces me to believe in gender identity and the theories that are foundational to them.

So 'cis' is meaningless and false.

Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet
Bollihobs · 22/04/2025 18:51

randomchap · 22/04/2025 13:11

For all the labour bashing, the trans rights movement came to a head during the Tory governments. If the Tories wanted to protect women then they could have done that any time. They didn't want to, they wanted to keep this as a wedge issue to use to attack Labour. They do not care about women

If there was a solution that the Tories "could have done" can't you share it with us now and Labour can implement it and all will be well?

EntropyCentral · 22/04/2025 18:53

Ha. Start a new thread entitled “who thinks trans women exists” and i guarantee over 90% will say they don’t!

I guarantee the opposite.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.