Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

So, let's get this straight.

You think that increasing the chance of rape, assault and abuse of female prisoners is ok to allow some male prisoners into the female prison.

That there is a serious safety issue in female prisons is already horrendous, but you think adding to it is ok?

Same. I don’t get this argument like it’s some sort of ‘gotcha’. If I presented in such a gender non conforming way that a woman felt the need to pull me up for being what she thought was male, I wouldn’t care! It would be laughed off.

The point being that because I am a woman, I understand completely the need for her to do that. Because she felt her privacy, dignity and possibly safety was compromised. That’s the point.

Ah, 'hostility'. Many transwomen have reported that women saying NO to them is in their eyes a 'hate crime', and a strange look is a 'hate crime'. This info is self-reported, and 'hostility' and 'hate crime' means anything these entitled males think it means, HENCE,
your link is null and void.

It's unbelievable how many people claim it's not always possible to tell the difference between a man and a woman without checking inside their underwear.

There are so many signs that a man is a man and a woman is a woman apart from the obvious and many are impossible to fake.

I know a number of trans men and women and none of them pass for the sex they want us to think they are, despite some of them having hormone treatment and surgery. Therefore, I think it's unlikely that I'm being fooled by strangers.

This morning, I was in Sainsburys where I saw a woman who had gone to great lengths to look like a man. She had done as good a job as I've seen and was the closest I have seen to a trans person who "passes".

She was tall (probably not far off six foot), flat-chested, bearded, had short hair and was wearing masculine clothing. It was clearly her intention that people should think she is a man, and from the front it was easy to see why some people - at first glance - might be fooled.

However, there were some clear indications that she is a woman. Despite the beard, the feminine contours of her face were evident. She was slightly overweight and - apart from the flat chest, presumably achieved by bi-lateral mastectomy - her fat distribution was clearly feminine.

Any doubt that might have remained was instantly dispelled as she turned and walked away. The shape of her back and hips, defined waist and gait gave her away. In fact if I had seen her from the back before I saw her from the front, it wouldn't even have occurred to me that she was trying to look like a man.

Despite all the trouble she has gone to to look like a man, I would have absolutely no problem sharing a female-only space with her. I believe most, if not all women would realise she was a woman, even if they had to look twice.

It wasn't an accusation it was a question.

I suspect this judgement will come as a shock to all of your cousins and the man who identifies as trans in the workplace.

They've been lied to by stonewall and the organisation who blindly followed their lead.

None of that means that women shouldn't have single sex spaces, as thankfully the Supreme Court has confirmed was the intention of the Equality Act all along.

that doesn't link to the statistical data and it doesn't link to where that data has been collated. We understand that some of these crime statistics include misgendering because women's groups have gone through them carefully. Please post the actual statistics please.

Somehow I knew you would say that…

Seriously... How many transmen are there in the UK? Not very many. I doubt we will be awash with gigantic hulking female transmen because there just aren’t the numbers some posters are alluding to. I think trans men pass better than transwomen and I might not be able to tell 100% of the time but I bet I could 95%. The other 5% (if they were a fucking great brick shithouses of a women) I can bet myself and most women wouldn’t be challenging out of fear so no harm done to the TiFs.

Or men could just act decently and stay out.

Whether they identify as trans or not.

You appear to have a very low opinion of men if you think they are incapable of complying with laws designed to keep women safe.

Transpeople should really blame Stonewall and their ilk for this nonsense, not women who want their own spaces.

No, just men.

Well done there for completely minimising the experiences of women prisoners who have been victims of sexual assault by other women. Just because the perpetrator’s a woman it doesn’t mean the victim is not a victim of rape. That might not be the legal definition but the trauma can be exactly the same

and no, women with thinning hair never lose it in a way that men lose it. Male pattern baldness is called that because it is only applicable to males. Women do get thinning hair but it doesn’t happen in the same way- usually it thins all over.

That's not quite true. I have had female androgenetic alopecia since I was a teenager, and lost 90% of my hair. Granted I was an extreme case, but the condition can and does affect some women severely - including in a male pattern way too. The male pattern of loss - receding hairline, etc - is more common in men (hence the name) but certainly not impossible for women to experience.

@Frenchbluesea
We are concerned about male violence against women. That’s why we want single sex spaces. We have been forced to share spaces with trans women who are biologically male, it was not our choice. The percentage of men who are criminals is also small compared to the whole male population. Does it mean we should invite all men into women’s spaces?

Do you think that putting men in womens Prisons increases or decreases the risk of female prisoners being assaulted?

Yet it's true. Males think misgendering them is 'literal violence'. Any woman say no to them is hostility and hate. Wake up. There is zero evidence most of these built like a brick shithouse males are attacked by other males.

I hope the tide is turning on ALL this ‘hate crime’ bollox.

I was once mistaken for a man - by two policemen! I am 5 foot nothing, 50 kg with a pixie haircut. Tiny bones and very feminine face. But I was dressed in jeans and a shirt, carrying a large rucksack and it was dark. That's the sort of discernment many men have. A woman would not have made the same mistake. Anyway, it didn't bother me at all.

Oh get you, lecturing me on trans identifying children.

Pre-puberty my daughter thought she might be a boy. She's autistic and impressionable and likes sport and other things that TRAs like to put girls in the 'boy' box for.

We told her we loved her and that there's nothing a girl can't do, except be a boy, because that's nonsense because humans can't change sex and guess what? Post puberty she's happy in her own skin, still fantastic, likely lesbian happy child whose not been led down a harmful misogynistic pathway that tells girls that they can be born wrong.

But your point about how do you challenge only works for toilets, doesn’t it? There’s significant gate keeping possibilities for all the others.

Agreed, and yet this is what happens when the media creates such a nationwide fear of a very few people. They could be anyone. Are they a trans? Oh, that person has big hands. This one is tall. Should they really be here or are they one of them!

I don't think biological women being accused of being trans is the huge problem some posters think it is.

I'm starting to think this is a 'tall women are men' sterotype.

What a load of bollocks.

My mother in law is just shy of 6 foot and has short hair. Never in her life has she ever been confused for being a man.

Just as men can and do get breast cancer.

Because they tend not to say "oh excuse me, are you a man" - one friend received really incredibly nasty abuse, which carried on in public when she left, and she was followed down the street by the two women and people with them.

The other had all her personal details put online to millions of followers. She's an adult woman and can handle shit. And luckily her employer put up with the hundreds and hundreds of phone calls and emails. But she has teenage daughters at high school - imagine what they had to put up with at school when someone has broadcast that their mother is actually a man.