Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

‘I don’t believe trans women should be forced to use men’s toilets, that is clearly putting them at risk.’

At risk of what? Please show us the statistics of how many TW are assaulted when using the correct toilets for their sex.

You either believe in facts or you don’t, there’s nothing polarising about saying people can’t change sex, that sex is binary and immutable, because they are facts. If you choose to believe something that is impossible then obviously you are going to find it difficult to navigate certain situations, but that’s on you, it isn’t anything to do with those of us who know what the facts are.

I think this is ridiculous. Are we really saying trans women have to use male toilets with urinals and trans men have to use female toilets? Are people going to be challenging women who look trans and vice versa?

You don’t know where women are assaulted by men?

@TheKeatingFive also sorry but your post is super ignorant. Do you know any trans people? Does your world have any LGBT people in it? (who have much more diverse opinions than MNers). Do you know how much hate trans women get by straight men? I have trans friends, every one of them has at the very least been verbally abused by almost always straight men. Many have been beaten up. So of course they’re going to be at risk in a fucking toilet. Of at the very, very least verbal abuse, but most likely physical violence and sexual assault. Geez your world is small if you don’t know that 🤣

But as I said I ain’t getting into it. I’m in the middle and MN is very much anti trans so obviously there’s no point in having a debate because I can see both points of view. I also can’t be arsed arguing with strangers on the internet

I don’t vote Reform or read the Mail or Express, so you are wrong. I’m not a fan of Brexit either.
@Guinessandafirewhat a pathetic right wing trope you’ve come out with.

lol this just proves my point

Oh wow, that's what you've come back with???

If a workman or male cleaner is in attendance they normally have a sign up to say so.

Men whether or not they identify as trans women do not have the legal right to be in women's single sex spaces (outwith the limited circumstances above).

You said-
Because legally there is nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets anyway. It's just societal pressure.

and that is completely and utterly incorrect.

And as for claiming that Trans men are men, that's another point that was confirmed to be incorrect by the Supreme Court, Trans Men are Women.

@Indianajet
Biological women belong in women’s spaces, biological men belong in men’s spaces. Supreme Court clarified it last week. Why is it still confusing for you?

I think you're conflating hate crime reports (i.e, misgendering) with actuaul violent attacks. It's irrelevant though, as yes, men, not just transwomen, are more likely to be involved in attacks in public, than women are.

Send links to the data so we can look at it. Just saying ‘ons data’ shows something doesn’t necessarily show what you think it shows.

It's not trans-men having a tantrum about it though, is it? Always men.

If you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman then, I don't care. If you're a man then stay out of women's safe spaces. You know what sex you are. If you're that confused that you don't then please, stay at home.

The vast majority of transwomen have penises, so yes, urinals will suit.

This is all such a nonsense. All this rubbish about ‘how would you know a transman isn’t a real man…’ all a straw man.

Nobody’s suggesting we have people vetting those going in and out of loos. But this legislation gives employers the right to ask employees to STOP if they are a trans person making their colleagues uncomfortable (as one of my colleagues does).

TW can use the cubicles or campaign for their own spaces that they and the TWAW brigade can use along side them. How they feel about using the men’s isn’t a woman problem to solve.

They will still have the strength of a man.
You don’t need a penis to assault someone.
They are a danger to women irrespective of surgery.

Their presence takes away woman's privacy, dignity and a right to safety

No
They are not allowed in single sex spaces….with or without a penis.

Wrong place, posters here hate the trans community. They’ll claim not to, but it’s quite evident

"The number of cis men who are violent against women is significantly higher. Why aren’t you concerned about that?"

this is not only false, according to the statistics we have at hand, but it is a false forced decision.

We can be concerned by both.

We can be concerned by the fact that male people with transgender identities are very much still male and for safeguarding purposes they carry the same risk as the general male population of the UK. And we can be concerned by the violence against women from ANY male person.

Readers: this is why language is important.

By this poster posting about 'transwomen' and 'cis men' (cis is a meaningless term by the way), this poster is trying to use language to hide the fact that there is no evidence in the UK that any male person at any stage of transition has a lower risk of committing sex offences than the general male population.

By using obfuscating language, they are attempting to obfuscate that MALE people are the issue. And all 'transwomen' are MALE people.

The bat signal went out and that's the latest gotcha : 6 foot beardy, muscular trans men. We are not dealing with rational people.

But even if you did, it has no relevance to anything. People are allowed to have differing political views. Trying to insult people by sneering they vote reform is not the gotcha they think it is.

How are we supposed to know if a bloke has his penis or not?!

Men must stay out of women's spaces. Don't care how they dress.

What point was that exactly?

So does Keir Starmer now. And I predict all political parties will soon follow him.

What will TRAs do when MN is not the only place to demonise?

I’m so tired of this crowing on here. With a bit of luck, trans women will continue to use female toilets and trans men male ones, because the vast, vast majority of the time no one would be able to tell anyway.
As for Labour, I don’t think there is a single person left on the planet for them to sell out

I mentioned toilets in response to others.

Just change it to "womens only spaces" in your head.

I'm someone who has got off her arse to make changes and protect women. Not just sat on the internet bullying like so many on here. I'm someone who wants to find a solution that will stop biological women being accused of being trans because some twats on the internet decide they are - however much people on here / twitter etc tell themselves I am lying to make themselves feel better. I have trans men and trans women in my friendships groups, and as family. I think fair discussions without name calling is possible to find a safe solution for everyone. I'm personally not willing to accept the "collateral damage is acceptable" idea.

There is zero evidence that trans people are attacked twice as likely as 'c1s' people, that's a lie. Indeed and in fact, evidence and statistics clearly prove transwomen sexually offend 5 times higher than 'c1s' males. And many women have indeed been assaulted by transgender women so you should really get your facts straight, @Frenchbluesea