Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

Then it will be males at risk from male violence.

After all the abuse women suffered and the gaslighting of what our bloody eyes were telling us that this is a bloke in a womens safe space. I am struggling to find the empathy at present.

Genuinely a bit staggered by the pace of developments today (the Guardian has a live blog which is useful). It feels pragmatic and positive.

@Roxietrees what do you think about transwomen in women's sports, prison, refuges and rape crisis centres?

I don't just mean toilets. Because legally there is nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets anyway. It's just societal pressure. And I'm not justifying anything.

I am laughing at the "we can always tell" brigade, but I am 100% certain you can't "always tell". That is a ridiculous thing to claim.

A discussion about it, without name calling, or making utterly ridiculous claims would be great. Find a way that everyone is supported. Because there are just as many trans men as there are trans women. And trans men need to be included in the conversation.

Removing single sex spaces for women is not equality for all.

It's not equality for women.

Men who identify as trans have two options, women who can't be in single sex spaces have none.

There is nothing toxic about wanting women to have privacy and safety and dignity.

Please may I politely ask, how would a woman encountering such a male in the female bathroom know he had no penis? Surely if the person was as nice as you are saying, they would know female spaces are for females and as they were not female, they should not be there. So they can’t be that nice if they are purposefully going somewhere they know they should not be,

If gender non conforming men are not safe in men’s spaces, why is that women’s problem to solve? If gender non conforming men are not safe in men’s toilets, why would making women’s spaces mixed sex (which they would be if they let in GNC men) make women safer? Or do women not count in your view?

The BMA is totally captured. I’m sure you’ll find a fair few doctors there who are not trans but still support the ideology.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/equality-and-diversity-guidance/lgbtplus-equality-in-medicine/inclusive-care-of-trans-and-non-binary-patients#:~:text=The%20BMA%20affirms%20the%20rights,experiences%20and%20overall%20health%20outcomes.

Well what do YOU think trans women are going to do to you? Something like that I imagine

Wrong the Equality Act has always said that women's single sex spaces are for biological women only.

The Supreme court has now clarified this as has the Government this morning.

Ah so Transwomen need protection from men but women don’t - that’s your argument?

I'm a TRA? 🙄🙄

Could you explain why I spent a considerable amount of my own time protecting women's sports if I am an TRA?

i think if it’s say a young very feminine looking trans woman they may be at risk of bullying etc in a men’s toilet or changing area

But wouldn’t a young very effeminate gay man potentially have the same issues?

The 10 year old who was sexually assaulted by Katie Dolawtowski probably didn’t expect to be assaulted by a man in the toilets either. But she was. Problem is according to you women shouldn’t be able to object to his presence there.

Luckily now they can (without being called a bigot). The social contract that was in place before the TRAs ripped it up will hopefully come back.

No, it doesn't say that.

All a man has to do is claim to be a cleaner. Or a plumber. Or there to fix the hand dryers. Or now, a transman - which will be much easier than dressing up as a transwoman.

Of course. All men are gentle souls, who have no problem with a 'man in a dress' coming into their toilets. Absolutely none of them are violent or bigots who would have the slightest issue with it.

@Roxietrees so if GNC men are not safe in men’s spaces, why would making the women’s spaces mixed ses make them safer? Surely by letting males in, the SSE would no longer apply and any and all males would be free to enter as you have made it a de facto unisex space? To allow some males in and not others would also leave the venue open to discrimination claims from those males who were excluded by reason of their gender identity not being trans,

They should. No argument from me. They are biological males. 🤷‍♀️

1. I am concerned about trans men.
2. How do you know I haven’t “lobbied” men?
3. women have been sharing spaces with transwomen for some time now. We are only at risk from transgender women who are actually criminals. Like any cross section of the population there will be some. The number of cis men who are violent against women is significantly higher. Why aren’t you concerned about that?

You have misunderstood my post. I am all for biological women only toilets/prisons/wards/sports if you read my previous posts.

i was only speaking about my own personal likelihood of being assaulted. Slim, I believe.

But I still want privacy in the toilets for certain functions.

They didn't have to dress up at all, though - the concept of self-id was pushed by Stonewall et al and meant that blokes merely had to claim a trans identity to be supported by all such organisations in entering any women's spaces they liked. Women who objected were called bigots for it.

Good question though my gay son has not reported anything

If you e done that, why are you obsessing about toilets? It’s the least interesting or important part of the consequences of the judgement. You should be pleased.

It is the point I made.
The data is from the ons as I’ve already said twice
You have proved my point that mumsnet will not accept that no one is safer now. My final point

Apologies. I did misread it.

OK, I'm sorry if you're not, but you must be aware that this very same argument has been pushed by every TRA on the internet in he last few days, so you very much sounded like one.