Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

Image related to my above comment

Good grief what a prat. Thus nonsense does really need calling out. Social contagion. Facts are important.

When transmen choose to use the gents', they take on all the risk of being identified by men.

When transwomen choose to use the ladies', they ARE the risk to women.

This is the fundamental difference that all this week's trumpeting 'gotchas!' fail to comprehend.

The male sex is a danger to women, to children and to other men. NAMALT obviously, but SMALT.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

This is something that men need to sort out among themselves - that some of their sex don't look, sound, dress, behave like they do ... but still should be safe in their own spaces and not feel justified into bulldozing women's space to get away from their own sex's behaviour.

This is not a problem that women have a duty to solve. This is not something women should be vilified for protecting.

https://forwomen.scot/05/02/2025/rules-of-misogyny/

That really depends on if they pass or not doesnt it?

You're only about the 573rd person to say this on Mumsnet and second so far on this thread. And it's a lame comment. One, because we can tell the difference, and have always said we're fine with trans men in the toilets. And we meant it. Two, because for years us feminists fought for third spaces to help trans. It is trans that rejected it. If they had fought as hard for third spaces as they did systematically shitting on (and with some monuments at the rallies on the weekend, literally urinating on feminist monuments) womens sex-based rights and spaces, they'd have third spaces now and no worries.

@hopspot yea I agree, I think it’s good that women and girls have been able to keep the right to safe spaces and I feel almost bad to feel this way… I work for the NHS and feel almost as if I have to agree that trans men should have access to female spaces in order to not come across as transphobic . I would like to think I’m accepting of anyone but I also wouldn’t feel comfortable if men could access say a gym changing room etc. I agree that a third option would just be the easiest option. I do think this decision could have been made a lot more quietly if people didn’t make such a big deal out of it! Just have a ‘mixed sex’ choice.

Well from my personal experience here is a list.

I have had to use the toilet while having a pram / pushchair jammed into the door with groceries.

I have had to have my mum use the public toilet because the disable toilet was not available and had her wheelchair jammed in the door because I couldn't leave her sit to move it and shut the door.

I have had breastmilk leaks / children's vomit / food spilled on my clothes and needed to have an unbuttoned top to dry the top under the hand drier.

I have come across other women quite regularly washing out their tops or their skirts etc and drying them enough to put back on .

I have friends who have miscarried in toilets and needed assistance and for that to be female people to make it more comfortable.

That you have not experienced this doesn't mean it is not happening. I am glad that you have never needed to do this things, it is uncomfortable and can be quite humiliating. But at least, in a female only toilet, it is a little better.

Wow that’s a whole new level of delusion.

It truly has been shocking to see the amount of people who have weaponised some female people's decisions to shame other female people to allow male people to use female single sex spaces.

The definition is in para 265 of the judgment and follows that given in the Equality Act 2010:

"The meaning of the terms “sex”, “man” and “woman” in the EA 2010 is biological and not certificated sex. Any other interpretation would render the EA 2010 incoherent and impracticable to operate"

For the purposes of the EA 2010 a person with a gender recognition certificate is not treated as being a woman but is still a man.

The law is that sex is binary and that you are either male or female from birth.

If you are asking a different question of what is the definition of sex at birth then the EA 2010 gives that as being the sex that is recorded on the birth certificate.

So, that's down to doctors.

This point never seems to sink into their minds when they start demanding answers as to how it is going to be policed.

It could be seen to be very transphobic.

So men have told this guy he's a better women and real women? Hmmm file that under things that never happened and his ever growing list of delusional fantasies.

Sadly some men have a fetish that involves dressing up as women and using women’s private spaces. Those men (unsurprisingly) also have very high rates of sex offences against women. If you see them in the ladies (and I have) they are almost always obviously men and generally they want to be seen too because they get a thrill out of it.

i want to use the toilet (and for my daughters to use the toilet) in privacy and safety without these men being permitted in there.

"... they had security outside the train station toilets asking for ID."

This did not happen. People working there on that day have stated that this is false.

We have been over this so many times. Who is going to be attacking a trans women in the toilets? As they keep saying, they just want to pee- well other males just want to pee too.

men are not going to suddenly think I’m going to attack the trans identified male just because they are in the loos with them. men don’t just randomly beat up other men in the loos. Would any man you know want to beat up a trans woman just because they see them having a pee next to them?

For all those who are demanding to know how it will be policed, how was it policed in the past?

Also, do you really intend to attempt to make a claim that something should not become law and societal expectation because it cannot be 100% policed? What other laws should we simply drop or ignore because it cannot be 100% policed?

This type of absolutist catastrophising is a deliberate cognitive distortion tactic used by extremist activists. It really is not a clever gotcha in anyway.

Oh this is brilliant! At last. Shame it took FWS to get them to say it.

Exactly. Where the hell has this narrative sprung from?

'There are plenty of trans men who would not be allowed into a women’s toilet without first proving they do indeed have a vulva'

I doubt anyone would challenge a transman. They are usually short in stature with obvious female hips and look like butch lesbians, which is fine but they are not remotely threatening despite beards and tattoes.

Transmen/women are allowed in women's toilets.

Yep same here- once spilt red wine over my trousers. Had to wash and stand awkwardly and embarrassingly in just my small pants whilst holding them under the dryer.

I have also lost count of the amount of times in my youth where we would have to get changed in the toilets for a night out. I sure wasn’t going to be doing that on the toilet in a cubicle! 😬

I’ve also had to deal with heavy period mopping up on my hands. I used to haemorrhage massively and it was very distressing having to sort myself out.

Ummm...... we know the difference.

We know you're DESPERATE to find some whataboutery angle to defend your agenda that womens sex-based rights and sex-based spaces should not exist, but attempt just looks desperate and pathetic. Just save time and tell us you don't believe women should have our hard won spaces for safety, dignity and privacy.

This whole movement was about the thrill of intimidating and upsetting women.

Have you ever met any transwomen, @Tomatotater ?

I know a few, and some of those I know very well. None of my TW friends and colleagues would get any sort of "thrill" out of intimidating anyone. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And neither would the two transmen that I know, come to that.

I'm not saying that it never happens, but it's far from being a given.

This is a problem because women won't know what the people in the loos were born with and which bearded person is female and which male. This is one more of the absurdities that we could do without having to navigate.

This!

Why aren't some questioning what on earth is the problem with men's toilets and if there is a problem sort it out and educate the men.

This ruling is going to make things quite tricky for a certain flying lawyer who enjoys visiting the ladies spa & posting photos of themselves online, not to mention RMW who also believes they have the right to use female spaces...