Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

This has already been proven to be false. Just India Willoughby perpetuating a lie then getting called out on it.

You're being ridiculous. There are literally dozens of posts on this quite short thread stating that women and transmen use the women's toilet. Men and transwomen use the men's.

It isn't more complicated than that. The law is really clear so everyone will follow that, whether they like it/agree with it, or not.

Men have the ability to pee outdoors so have even more options than women do. How's that for a bonus?

Apparently Waverley station has a problem with junkies using the loos to shoot up and making it unpleasant for law-abiding members of the public to use them, so it's not unusual for security staff to be on patrol there, checking who's going in and out. The Transeratti have interpreted the presence of security staff as being all about them — which is par for the course.

How many big transmen are out there really? And how many of short or medium hight, with feminine hips and small hands?

Is this an active everyday issue? I cant really from the top of my head recall ever wondering "hnmm... is that person trans" when at a queue to the toilet. Maybe the answer is less bathrooms and make them unisex and single occupant. Easier to everyone.

On the contrary, the SC ruling makes it much easier for women to confront any males in their spaces. And also to speak to staff about the offender and have them removed. Whereas before the ruling we had the misogynistic lunacy where if we had complained about a male in our space, it would have been us that was seen as the villain.

It isn’t even about masculinity. I have several fully fledged vagina and uterus having female friends who are 6 feet plus and they have all experienced hatred and unwanted questioning based on apparent “large hands” or some other apparent indication they must actually be trans women. Imagine just nipping to the loo and having security called because you have PCOS and more hair than apparently women are allowed to have.

Congratulations though, because to make some women feel safe now anyone that someone may feel might not be female enough doesn’t.

That's misinformation about Waverley. Waverley staff confirmed that this wasn't happening.

We police it same way as we did before. We need to rebuild the social contract and have men start acting with decency and obeying the law. Thankfully now women will be empowered to say something if the law is being broken.

Its not perfect but it's a lot better than women being silenced because they're afraid they'll be accused of transphobia.

Perhaps you should think about this.

What is the point you are trying to make? That because your child has a philosophical belief about their identity, that female people should simply accept male people in their single sex spaces? Because of your daughter's decision?

The way you are phrasing this mimics the extreme activists need to scare and intimidate female people into accepting male people into their single sex spaces. I am not sure if you understand this.

No one wants to see your child harmed. Alternative solutions need to be found for those people who reject using spaces for their sex in organisations that can do this. But doubling down and repeating threatening style sound bites of 'this female transperson is now going to come into your toilets, will you be happy about this' is not the gotcha you think it is.

We know from other female people with transgender identities that they actively seek alternative solutions because they understand that their presence may cause distress in other female people. They understand that they are the ones who made the decisions to take testosterone to change their appearance and that this decision may mean that they have limited their options. We have had quite a few female transgender people post this on our threads. They also deplore being weaponised in the way that extreme transgender activist's soundbites are weaponising them.

Not in the slightest. And as an unfeminine-looking woman with a buzz cut, I also really hate all the fake concern about women like me being at risk of being challenged about our entitlement to be in female spaces. If it happens, and it never has so far, I'm happy to offer reassurance.

@Helleofabore I think we will have to agree to disagree. I have never in my 60+ years been inside womens toilets and seen anything that I wouldnt be happy with a man seeing. My local theatre has mixed sex toilet cubicles, some with wash hand basins in some with communal ones. Again I have no problem with this. I am struggling if I am honest to think what activities you are referencing.

Were you concerned AT ALL about how to police transwomen using womens toilets, without opening the door to all men who can simply claim they're women? I'm guessing you weren't...

Again, I know plenty of BIG women. Tall women with larger hands than my own DH. But yea, that’s the answer. Analyse and judge women based on what you suppose a women should be.

Keeping women in small boxes. Is that your goal?

Well, Beth Upton would probably take issue with your definition of a biological woman. I believe (s)he's said as much at the Fife tribunal.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. The goalposts will continually keep changing. Saying sex is immutable doesn't wash when you have people who think 'biology is always evolving'.

Well, as others have said that isn’t true. Let’s assume it happens somewhere though - why would anyone be arrested? If you can’t prove you are the right sex with ID then go to a loo somewhere else as we do now if the ladies is out of order where we happen to be.

Completely agree. There are more babies born each year than there are trans people across the whole of the UK. Perhaps all those mothers should kick up a fuss about their rights being eroded as they can't access the spaces that they want.

During the recent trans rights protest in Edinburgh they had security outside the train station toilets asking for ID.

I saw that made-up claim on X too. It wasn't true.

Why did nobody ever wonder how they'd "police" it when women were not allowed to vote, hold property, attend university or stand for election? Hell, why did nobody ever get confused over which people that applied to?

U ok hun?

Tall women, short women, big or small hands - we're all women and entitled to be in women's spaces. It's men who need to piss of out of them and finally the law has been confirmed.

It will be fine as long as people respect the law.

Amazing how many TRAs suddenly know a 6 foot woman, who has been accosted by other women. You knowing multiple is really something...
6 foot tall women make up a tiny fraction of the population.

I’m average height for a man, with large hands and feet and short hair. I never wear skirts or dresses. I’ve also never had a problem with anyone getting my sex (female) wrong.

As do trans women ✌🏻

We police it same way as we did before. We need to rebuild the social contract and have men start acting with decency and obeying the law. Thankfully now women will be empowered to say something if the law is being broken.

This. Decent men stay out so that the bad ones stand out.

I'm fascinated by the apparent belief on display here that if a woman takes testosterone and grows a beard, she also develops a patriarchal mindset and loses all respect for other women and their feelings. Maybe there are a few who do become Andrew Tate types, but I've never met them. The transmen I know all remember how vulnerable it can feel to be a woman confronted by a man. In a couple of cases, I'd say they transitioned because they had had direct experience of how badly women are treated by men.

Do you mean your daughter who presents as a man?

Perhaps “trans women” shouldn’t have barged into women only spaces in the first place then, without any care or consideration for women and girls. Then there would be less confusion about women with a masculine appearance.

And?