To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

I don’t want or mean to sound defensive but it’s hard because I’ll say something in response to another poster (who was telling me I need to talk to him / have conversations) and I explain it’s difficult to do that and then that response is picked at by others.

@hoppingandhop I feel for you. Some kids are just born trickier than others. I think it's down to their temperament. My first was like that. Now at 10 a bit better but still difficult in a whole new way. I do suspect adhd now though which has become more apparent as they grew older.

It's just possible that your DS is just a bit of a shit. Sorry to say that, but boys can be really difficult.

This is a really horrible comment to make about a small child and not remotely helpful.

OP, the not-listening thing is so difficult to handle and I think you've been offered some good advice here. With my DS, it didn't really register that there was a problem - I just blamed myself - until he was about 5 and a friend said to me: 'It's amazing how [DS name] can just blank people, isn't it?' I realised he really did seem to be on a different planet at times and that no one could break through. I agree with the advice to get down to his level and getting him momentarily to stop what he's doing. Also, be aware that just because certain things don't appear to go in, it doesn't mean that nothing does. He will be picking up a lot more than you think, but maybe processing it differently/at a different speed.

What is his relationship like with your other child?

Please, for your child’s safety on future outings, buy one of those back packs with reins attached. He’s not too big to be controlled in this way. I was wondering if he is displaying signs of Autism. May be worth speaking to your GP about your son. He obviously is putting himself in danger by running off. This is not normal behaviour eg licking faces, shouting loudly.

I know it’s said too often on here, but are you sure he isn’t autistic? A lot of what you describe is exactly how my autistic DSS was like at 4, except he barely spoke as he had a speech delay. My younger brother is autistic but was more verbal and was similar (would run off etc.)

we bought these for DSS
https://amzn.eu/d/hDBRo84
and for a few years had to use them as a consequence for going too far away and not coming back when called. Even with his speech and language delay he quite quickly learned and now pretty much never bolts (though obviously we’re still mindful of it).

To be honest you can try things until you're blue on the face, assuming that it's something that you're doing wrong, but ultimately you're doing all these things that look wrong because of how your child is, just as much as they're coming from you.
I've seen posts saying it's lazy not to make your child do X, you just have to hold firm the first few times, and I'm thinking I've been holding firm for several years on many things and it's exhausting.
Ultimately I would suggest to meet in the middle with your demands, holidays can be a stress point for anyone let alone struggling kids.
And parent them as if they are autistic/ADHD rather than assuming you can just fix something and it'll be ok. That means it's a more long haul thing to make progress.
And finally just one step at a time! Look after yourself.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time OP. I havent read all the posts, but age 4 is a hard year, for everyone! I have 4yr old twins right now and they're wild.
Remember that your younger child will also be 4yrs old one day, and maybe they will also be a handful.
I hear that it gets better.
I won't give you advice, just a bit of solidarity. 1 of my twins cannot control the volume of his voice. He is like a foghorn.
He does get told off for shouting when its on purpose, but sometimes I will also tell him off before realising he was just speaking really, really loudly. That's his voice, and he cant really help it. I try to focus on the good things.

Try to spend some time 1:1 with him, notice when he’s demonstrating the behaviour you desire, “I can see you’re sitting really nice,” etc. Find some positives about him and tell him what you do like about him.

It’s painful witnessing parents that clearly favour one child over their other child. The children notice, the preferred child often becomes smug as they get older, and overtly ‘pleasing’ to their parents. The non favoured child knows, and feels that they aren’t loved as much as their sibling.

As the parent it’s up to you to try everything you can to turn this around because it will affect both children’s personalities in the end.

I would lay my money on additional needs and the behaviour is coming from
anxiety/overwhelm. The fact that he’s worse when there’s two of you parenting at once is a giveaway; two people talking at you and expecting things is overwhelming.
Edit: I have a child with learning difficulties and he behaves like your son does.
Also, I don’t want to kick you when you’re down, because I can see this thread has been rough, but please don’t casually throw in having PTSD. PTSD is life changing and life altering, it occurs after significant trauma, takes a fair while to develop and you would absolutely know if you had it, your life would never be the same. It’s absolutely not the same as having anxiety.

I feel the same as you about my eldest OP! All I can say is that he's nearly 5 now and I am seeing a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. Learning to read seems to have been quite helpful, are you working on that?

My younger one is now entering the years of doom, I think it's just 3-5 to be honest! In my house at least. I think it is particularly hard for the first born though when the baby comes along.

I also think boys tend to be loud and rough and as a mum I find it a bit annoying, but my son can be SO lovely and those times are increasing. Stick with it and take deep breaths.

You say he's ok at nursery? Have a chat with them about how they manage behaviour and see if you can implement the same at home. This is what worked with my younger child who tried hard to push every boundary we had in place.

The other thing was working as a team - me and DH. It sounds like your DH isn't very involved; is it possible get him more involved and be united in holding agreed boundaries?

Lastly, try not to sweat the small stuff. I know how draining it is holding firm against a child. So we didn't argue when my youngest wanted to wear a tshirt in winter etc, we just picked up a coat for them. But something like licking (or in our case a brief period of biting) had a very firm response. It's hopefully a short period in their development, and ours is now an absolutely wonderful young adult. Exhausting though it was, it was worth putting the effort in when we did.

Hi @hoppingandhop
This sounds really tough and am sorry you’re going through this.

Lots of advice on this thread for you to sift through.

My one go to piece of advice that has worked for me is one to one time interacting in a way that HE really loves AT HIS LEVEL and not a way you want it to be.

So if you think he should like the swings and slides but that’s not always his thing - don’t do that as your special together time. If he loves messy finger painting - that’s what you do. You’re finding his Love Language - the thing that makes him feel loved and special. Don’t do this activity in a supervising him way - but do it with him, being silly, on his level, laughing with him. Even if you’re pretending and you hate it. Really try. If you do this once a week or so, without the baby and really push through, it will help his behaviour or help him connect with you.

also if you’re really struggling, and I did this with my DC when at my lowest ebb, I would imagine something happening to them. Like they’ve gone missing or they’re injured, poorly, taken away…. Really visualise this feeling and see how you feel and if some positive feeling washes over you. I did this when my DC were young and I was on my own night after night. I’d make sure they were safe and then sit and imagine my life without them and how I’d feel if something awful happened. I would then be filled with love and overwhelming relief and gratitude for them and this would help me get through a tough time.

In my experience 2 - 4 yo boys can be quite exhausting but do seem to get through it.

Good luck @hoppingandhop x

I recommend sitting with him when he is asleep and seeing how angelic he looks. Do things like hold his hand up against yours and notice how tiny it looks. He seems big because you've got a baby, but he is just a baby too.

I thought mine might have ADHD but as things improve I'm much less convinced.

I can honestly say that every child refuses to hold their parent's hand at some point and that they ignore their parents at some points. Which is specifically what she and I were both referring to in what you have quoted.

I agree it should go without saying, but it clearly needs pointing out to the OP, doesn't it?

Because she needs to realise that she is blaming her four year old for behaving like a four year old, and that it's her behaviour that needs to change.

She puts the baby in a baby carrier. Or they don't go down those particular steps. It's the sort of thing I'd expect the parent of a baby and a toddler to have considered, to be honest.

You say he's ok at nursery? Have a chat with them about how they manage behaviour and see if you can implement the same at home

Sensible. OP is the bottom of your triangle steady? Are you well , are you sleeping and eating OK? My 4 year old was quite frankly unbearable and no he wasn't " masking"

I agree with all of this. I find OP’s posts pretty disturbing, and I have a 3.5 year old who is very spirited and challenging and twin 18 month olds.

Please seek help for yourself — as I said earlier in this thread, your son really doesn’t deserve this.

Yes with a baby baby. DD at the time was fourteen months. I know people do use slings for that age but it’s not like you can just scoot around as normal. At any rate, it was a good ten months ago and while I am sure there are things I could have done differently I can’t go back in time and blame myself. The point of it is my worry about ds’s lack of response to me.

How can you say that???! You're the adult here. Your son is still very young and 4 year olds can be naughty. You are not "limited in what you can do"!! You need to triple, quadruple your efforts. Your little boy senses that you don't like him. Imagine how that must feel? You brought this child into the world - you are responsible for his happiness.

What are you going to do when much-loved sibling starts acting up too? Go off her as well?

Does his dad like the poor wee soul?!

It is interesting that you are assuming I’m not making an effort. It isn’t like being at the gym, where if what you’re doing isn’t working you go at it harder. It’s more that either he is listening and responding to me or he is not. Sometimes he does. Mostly he doesn’t. Of course you make the ‘effort’ insofar as you try different strategies or read different books but nothing has reached him yet and I’m not sure anything will.

Why won't you make the effort to go on a parenting course?

School will improve things a great deal op I suspect

This is really sad. I agree with other posters that you need to speak to a professional such as a gp. I have a four year old ds and this is pretty normal behaviour for a four year old, it is not easy at times and a lot of 4 year olds don’t listen. They are too little to follow instructions consistently or be aware of safety . I don’t want to come across as being judgemental, what you are saying does not sound normal, that you wish you didn’t have him. Please seek support from a gp or health visitor.