To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

Oh op @hoppingandhop this is hard, i am sorry. I have a 4 yr old and it can be exhausting..

you said you’ve tried everything which i believe it is true but its hard to comment or give advice if we dont know how trying look like..sometimes we dont realize our tone etc and everything can play a factor.
how long is he behaving like this? How is he with other people on his own besides at the nursery?

we have a “jar” looking thing printed out and put on the wall where we stick smiley faces on (from etsy) and every time my DS get a smiley face for a good behaviour. I am very clear though what is expected from him, and we have a talk before we go out and i explain lets say no running away because this and that…and he would get a smiley facet bc he didnt do it. Start with short trips and praise for doing what he was asked to do by rewarding. If jar is full my ds can choose a toy up to £10. We were working on few things anf this helped.

to be honest the only punishment is to take a smiley face away (but its also if he is being reminded thousand times and nothing works etc) as i dont believe in any other forms of punishments for kids this age.

do you talk to him, in the evening in bed, when its all quiet and its you to about his day, what did he like, what he didnt, what did you not like (short and easy sentences without overwhelming him)

Thanks @BertieBotts , your posts are always helpful (and nice!)

Do bear in mind if I’m coming across as a witch to burn here that it’s on the back of an intense four days where DS has been very trying and I’ve taken the brunt of it. When it’s just the two of us he’s mostly fine and so the guilt is there too.

Relationships with kids aren't reciprocal. As parents we are both relating to our kids and teaching them how to relate, partly just by example. We have to put a lot more work and effort in, often in circumstances where, if an adult behaved the way they do in response, we'd give up. It's not easy, it's ok to find it hard, it's ok to wish you didn't have to do it, but you do still have to do it.

(Sorry, OP, I @-d you by mistake here)

Op if someone was always pulling me up on my behaviour I think I would be exactly the same and zone out. In my mind I’d be thinking here we go again. I get it is a vicious cycle but I can see his side.
I actually think your wrong, yes a relationship goes two ways but not with a small child, you have to build their trust and show them love even when they have done wrong, you as his mother is supposed to be his safe space, his unconditional love, please show him this.

@Newusername1234567 this is where the poor listening is a problem. We try to but he often doesn’t respond or replies out of context.

Also..does he watch tv? How much every day? How much do you play together?

Is there no time during the day you have his attention and can have any sort of conversation?

I don’t think parenting advice is going to help the OP. She said a few posts up. …DH doesn’t do equal care and I’ve never spoken to him about this, so I genuinely think you must be thinking of another poster.……..

There is something odd that they wouldn’t have talked about their DS’s behaviour. It could well be that the OP needs to talk to someone urgently about her feelings towards her DS.

It’s been quite a while since she posted before about her DS and nothing has changed, her position towards her DS sounds worse now. OP, I would urge you to talk to someone about this.

Yes, but if he won’t listen, it’s difficult to have a conversation.

He does watch some TV. Not a lot, certainly,
some days none, some days a bit over the recommended amount. Mostly all balances out.

I am sorry but i dont believe healthy 4yr old would never listen to the point you cant have a short conversation about something he likes.

i would look further and go for some professional help as there might be something else

You go on an in person course and ask for outside help, I think that’s the next step. Asking for help from qualified professionals isn’t a sign of failure and could make a world of difference. Plus if he does need to be assessed for ADHD it’s likely you’ll need to do some of these courses first anyway before they will take you seriously.

When you say he’s not listening - do you change how you’re explaining it to him?
e.g. you said he didn’t pay attention to you when you were repeatedly telling him to stay away from the fire. Did you get down on his level and explain “Darling, the fire is extremely hot and dangerous. If you get near to it you will give yourself a very horrible burn. That will hurt a lot. It would be really awful to get burnt wouldn’t it. So you need to put a good amount of space between yourself and the fire.” And then add something less intense so that it has time to sink in and he knows you are there with him supporting him, acting in his best interests “I do think fire has a lot of lovely colours though. What do you notice about the fire? I’d love it if we could hold hands and watch the fire together.”

Obviously he's picked up on the fact he's not liked and has adjusted his behaviour accordingly.
He's getting your attention the only way he knows how ,by being difficult and running off .
He's not able to understand his behaviour leads to you giving him negative attention, because as far as he is concerned any attention is good attention
Poor little mite

You’ve misquoted this as me saying it but it was the Op 😊😉

Philippa Perry (pschyologist) is excellent on parenting - if you can't face reading yet another book, search for interviews with her on podcasts like the Scummy Mummies. When my kids were little, I sometimes found changing one small thing was less daunting than trying to overhaul my whole approach. Some tips I got from Philippa Perry were:

• Making eye contact and actually smiling at them - it's so easy not to do either of these things when life is distracting and busy.
• Always acting as though you are happy to see them in the morning or when you have been apart: 'Oh, hello!' 'Good morning! How are you?' - again with smiles and eye contact.
• Start every day fresh - so you act pleased to see them even if yesterday was a nightmare.

I still do these small things now my kids are teenagers - and I also use these strategies as a high school teacher. At the start of every lesson, and every time I see kids I teach on the corridor, I act like I'm pleased to see them and vocalise that - 'good morning, nice to see you!' etc. I think I must look demented sometimes, but over time it really really works. ESPECIALLY with the disruptive kids. I know you weren't looking for advice, but in the exhausted and sad place you are in, maybe just some tiny tweaks could lead to positive changes.

Okay, so you don’t believe it. So - what do you want me to say? He regularly doesn’t respond at all (‘do you want pasta or sandwiches for lunch’ - silence. Ask two more times and he’ll suddenly yell PASTA as if you’re the unreasonable one!)

Often he’ll say something random and out of context like ‘we are going to Tom’s house tomorrow’ in response to ‘do you sometimes feel sad about XYZ?’

He did say I was his favourite person on a ‘poem’ he wrote at nursery a few months ago. I’m not sure that’s true!

Just because nursery doesn’t have any concerns, I wouldn’t rule out ND.

Nursery didn’t have concerns with my DD, nor did school.

I made a list on my phone of all the behaviours that concerned me - not individually, but as a bigger picture - e.g. messy handwriting, always losing things, touching things she wasn’t supposed to, struggling socially. I then printed it off and showed it to the teacher. Initially she didn’t think for a second she could be ND, but once she stated to watch her closely she noticed things too. She was 10 by this point.

ND kids don’t come with waving a big flag. Sometimes it takes a while to unpick their behaviour.

Oops thought I was responding to the op !! Apologies

He's runoff twice in a year and you're painting him as the worst child ever.

Have you tried too many strategies, so much that he doesn't know whether he's coming or going?

I'd strip back to basics. Poor behaviour is a timeout. If you're out you threaten to go home once, then go home.

I’m sorry you’re struggling, your little boy’s behaviour sounds v v much like a family member’s child who was eventually diagnosed with auditory processing disorder. Maybe have a google and see if that might fit. There is a world of difference between not doing as you’re told and not even seeming to register the telling and I think it’s hard for people to get unless they’ve seen it in action.

Excellent yes I know was checking to see if you were reading my posts. I know what I wrote was difficult to read. Listen to me you have got time to make this right you seem like a good person who is tired sad and if I'm honest insecure about your attachment. Please if you can reach out for mental health support for yourself. If you are unable to fully parent reach out to your community to help. Find one friend who you can call or message anytime. I was this person for my cousin but it was to late to really help I bitterly bitterly regret it. If you saw in my post I love and respect my cousin but we did not understand how bad post natel depression could be. Come to mumsnet make a post rant rave this sisterhood is here but please don't put an adult burden on a child, they owe you nothing and at 3 years old they can give you nothing.

He’s sometimes ok with me, especially when dad isn’t around. When he (dad) and I are both present he’s vile to me. Not because of his dad … I don’t know what it is. @hoppingandhop

This is a huge clue and you need to dig into the possibilities. I'm not trying to blame your husband but I think you need to look at the dynamics when your husband is around.

Your ds is communicating to you in code. You need to stop taking it personally and work out what he's communicating.

Your son is vile to you and not your husband. This could be because he actually feels safer taking out how he's feeling on you.

How does your DH react if ds is awful to him? Why isn't ds vile to DH? There must be a reason.

Now what could ds be taking out on you? Is it frustration, anxiety, fear?

Is he getting even less attention when DH is around?

Does dh cause him stress in any way, either intentionally or unintentionally eg wind him up, ignore him, talk to the baby more etc
Does dh change the routine for ds

The best way to work out whats going on and how to help it stop is to find where it's not happening and ask yourself what's the difference.

I read Philippa Perry’s book. I didn’t find it hugely helpful to be honest. A lot of it upset me and made me feel bad and also some of the things aren’t very practical. Like if you’re walking somewhere and your child doesn’t want to go look at the leaves with then. Which is very sweet but if you’re got a younger child screaming her head off in the buggy as you look at the leaves with the older one then it’s hard to meet both needs.

I know I’ve said this a few times now but I am posting (or was) this morning from a ‘worst of DS’ perspective. A few things - he’s worse with dad and we’ve been with dad, his diet hasn’t been anything like as good as normal (and it is, that’s one thing I will say for my parenting) he’s been going to bed later than normal and hasn’t had much downtime. I’ll probably always find him trickier than my other child but he’s better at four than he was at two and he’ll hopefully be better at eight than he was at four.

The not listening is definitely a 4 year old thing, though. That example of telling him to get away from the fire - I had that with my kid who was 6 because she was enthralled and excited and Mummy in the background was neither enthralling nor exciting. It was worse when she was 4 but I really think it's normal. My husband and I both sometimes turned to each other and said "Did I say that out loud? Am I even here?" because she was so good at tuning us out.

One tactic that I found really helpful, OP, was that if she ignored me when I spoke in a normal voice, I would sidle over to her, slide my arm around her, and squeeze her whilst whispering what I had said in her ear. She really liked that and it always made her laugh and pay attention.