To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

@Verbena17 i do literally every night. I know it’s not translating very well in this post but I really do try. I’m not really seeking advice but thank you. If this could magically be solved by just a bit of mum and son time all would be well. DS has always been tricky anyway, long before DD arrived. But toddlers are.

I am sorry this is all so hard for you.
It is tempting to think that life would be better without him, but I am willing to bet a fortune that if he became really ill you would be frantic with worry and be by his bedside. It is OK to think these things .... we are all only human... but not to make them manifest in your behaviour! ... as I am sure you know.

This really does sound like jealousy and it looks as though you have done lots of the right things, like trying to give him one to one time. But so far none has worked.

Have you tried playing the big brother card? Oh baby cannot do X, she is not as grown up as you. Could you help me with this: baby is too small and I need you. Has he got special grown up tasks of his own that highlight his big brother status?

Do a bit of subtle "ganging up" .... thank goodness you can do X,Y,Z ... it really makes me happy. It will be good when baby gets as good as you at these things.

I have not read all the thread, so not sure how old sister is. Sorry. But I am sure you get the principle I am suggesting. Baby girls can be so cute, and this is just at a stage when his initial cuteness is wearing off! He needs to feel valued in other ways.

It is tough I know but you will get there.

Think ahead to when he is a lovely growing young man and she is a sulky teenage girl who is driving you nuts!

Is family counselling an option? Parental classes? That isn't an insinuation that you are a bad parent, it's that they may have thought of things you haven't. Have you looked up any videos on youtube? I know you said you've done some reading. Perhaps visible examples would be easier, I know I find it easier to watch things.

Get as much support as you possibly can. Get your husband on board and tackle it together.

Seek help from your GP. Your son sounds as if he could have some additional needs, and you are going to have to learn to meet them if you don’t want worse situations down the line.

It's possible that him being fine at nursery and then acting out with you may be indicative of the enormous effort he has to make to fit in with behavioural norms at nursery. At home, he can let go of that stress.

To build on my previous post about having 'special time' with him, I once read that with difficult children it's really helpful to love bomb them as much as possible - so giving them your full attention, praising them (even if you have to look hard for something to praise), making them feel special. It can really 'lift' their behaviour. As I said before, my DS's behaviour was very challenging, and I look back now and wish I'd realised that he was a very little boy, he was vulnerable (later diagnosed), and my expectations were way beyond what he was capable of managing. It's not helpful to compare with other children either. You need to meet them where they're at, not where you think they should be.

Well that’s great then! 😊
So speaking with nursery might help and if there’s nothing they mention that sticks out as ND or a hearing issue, maybe it’s just normal jealousy that will resolve as he gets older and goes to school.

Use reins for your son when he is out. They attach to a vest of straps. Always hold on to him. He is a runner and possibly will not be trusted to listen until he is six.

Although a great nursery/preschool should notice ND masking at the age of 4.
4 year olds cant mask as effectively as an older child. Even subtle ND behaviours can be spotted by experienced early years staff.

My DS really knows how to push my buttons. This book really helped me - “How to talk so little kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk”

“Ds has always been tricky long before dd arrived.” …….What do you mean by Long before?? He was only 2 years old when your daughter was born.

My Asd(autistic) child does all of the behaviours you describe. It is exhausting and at times in public makes me feel absolutely terrible and judged.
I have been to autism parenting groups where these types of behaviours are VERY common. It is not necessarily misguided parenting/naughty behaviour.
I would speak to your GP and ask their advice and for a referral to a parenting course. I found a parenting course specifically for autistic children so useful as the usual things that had worked with my older children were completely ineffectual. Even if your child doesn't have adhd/asd you must seek help to deal with his behaviour in a positive way.
The course I attended was mainly about predicting behaviour and planning in advance/not putting ourselves in situations my child couldn't cope with.

The child doesn't not sound ND with the behaviours the mother describes id be hesitant to make this diagnosis. Mother sounds tired possibly post natal depression. But the way she is thinking about her child indicates quiet a serious underlying issue within herself. I think i remember this poster saying her husband did not agree with the way she described her son and was also doing fully equal care. This is more then tirdness

Jesus, I’m sorry I don’t ever like to make a mum feel bad but this is on you not him. He is 4! Yea they can be annoying at times welcome to parenting. If he runs off yes get him reins, even if you do need them until he is 5,6 or 7 like you said previously who cares, his safety is the most important thing and outings will be a lot easier and enjoyable.

Honestly you need to chill out, play with him on his terms not yours. If he licks you how about instead of reprimanding him, laugh tell him he is gross and chase him about the house pretending you’re trying to lick him back. If he throws water bring him in the garden for a water fight explain that’s the only place we throw water. Don’t pull him up on every little thing he is a little boy at the end of the day and if everything he does his mum responds negatively too (even just by facial expressions) how sad do you think that is for him.

Telling you to get out of his way, albeit isn’t the nicest way to ask you to move but isn’t the worst either. You say you don’t speak like this however what’s your tonality like when you are speaking to him? This is what he will be mirroring.

What you said about the banging on the toilet door, no he didn’t listen but in the grand scheme of things is it the worst thing he could have done? No! If I come out of the toilet to find it was a small child knocking like that I would of laughed and told you not to worry about it, the fact the person coming out gave you a dirty look that’s her problem not yours and what does it matter what she thinks anyway you don’t know her from Adam.

Op try to lighten up a little, you think your son can’t sense your other child is your favourite? The smiles you give that child compared to him? The love and affection? I have no doubt you give your son some too however if you feel this way it will show in your actions how natural it is with your other child.

Maybe see if tor one week you play with him the way he wants. If there is a problem you find a solution that doesn’t involve telling him off, I.e you buy reins. You don’t reprimand him on how he talks to you, instead ignore it for just one week and see if there is improvement. At bedtime tell him what a lovely day you have had with him and how much you love him. After that week pick your battles, you don’t like him being rude okay that’s what you deal with after, explain what he said hurt your feelings would he like to try again nicely, and praise him when he does.

Most importantly op, remember to smile and laugh with him. You never know you may find you feel a lot happier too doing this, don’t sweat the small stuff he won’t be this little forever

Hi OP,

Have you tried communicating with your DS using pictures or words on a piece of paper rather than spoken language?

My DS for a long time didn't seem to be able to hear me, but he learns extremely rapidly from written instructions.

My DS was not deaf, but the connection between his ears and brain didn't seem to be there for a long time.

FWIW, I think reins are okay in a large child if that's what it takes. When DS was 4 we went on holiday and right out of the blue he developed a new hobby of bolting suddenly into traffic, over and over again. I had to run into a haberdashery shop and buy some stout cord and make reins right there on the spot or we'd never have got home alive.

I'm sorry things are so hard. It might be that it's just going to be hard. Maybe he values adventure over emotional connection? Possibly you just need to take him to somewhere like "Go Ape" and release him into the wild with a GPS tracker on him. I have a family member who was similar and he now has the job title at work "head of risk" and he keeps bees, which constantly sting him. I think some boys are just really reall wild.

I’ve spoken to nursery quite a lot and they have no concerns. I don’t think he is neurodiverse to be honest. It’s possible he’s got some mild learning difficulties, not exactly disabled but sort of less mature than other children but even then no problems at nursery.

I would say he does sensory seek, doesn’t share feelings (potty training was hell as he just wouldn’t say he needed to go) he can wind up, he is worse when DH and I are parenting together than just me alone, and also and awfully we don’t necessarily have loads in common. He can be very silly

he does have good qualities too. And I’m finding things in common. I’m Easter-d out. And also … I’m a better parent to one child I think, doesn’t matter which child, I find I’m spread too thin with them both.

My own children taught me there were no terrible twos, however the fecking awful fours had me at the end of my tether! Sailed through the twos, feeling superior, for four year olds to have me on my knees with both of them!

DH doesn’t do equal care and I’ve never spoken to him about this, so I genuinely think you must be thinking of another poster.

He sounds like a dog!

To an extent I think we kind of bring out the worst in one another.

This is a clear indication that it would help to interrupt the patterns, honestly.

I'm not going to pretend I'm perfect - I definitely have the same dynamic going on with my kids at times. In that book When Your Kids Push Your Buttons it has a line very near the front which is "Our kids get the worst of us" which I thought was incredibly raw and very true. We want to show them our best side, that's what all the books suggest and how we plan it when they are tiny and too little to push any buttons. Then reality happens and you get their worst side (which means they feel safe with you, shit as that is!!) and in response you find yourself saying or doing something you thought was the OPPOSITE of how you'd want to parent and then you end up in a guilt and shame spiral and meanwhile their behaviour doesn't magically get better so you can end up wondering how to even get out of that mess.

Having something in place, which doesn't rely on them having any specific reaction, to use in place of the automatic reaction does help interrupt that.

I don't think WYKPYB has any parenting advice in it as such but it does help you process your own feelings about things which I found helpful.

Parenting resources which don't rely on the child having a specific response IME (or have a sort of back up plan or a "what now??" for when they don't)

Big Baffling Behaviours
The ABCs of Everyday Parenting course
Something you have full control over e.g. the reward based systems or e.g. access to screen time (unplug TV/router or hide remote or use parental control to disable remotely)
When the Naughty Step Makes Things Worse book (this is long and I got a bit put off by some sections, but it does have some advice I've not come across in other places, which is useful. Would recommend skipping chapters if it's starting to annoy you, and going back if you need to.)

Also agree that it is useful to seek IRL support from GP/HV/SENCo/Family hub because if you can ask them the question "When I say/do X and my child does not do Y, what do I do then?" And if they cannot answer, ask if they can refer you to somebody or a resource who can.

For relationship stuff -

Try writing down one good/happy/fun moment of the day every day. Some weeks with my eldest this was the same thing every day and it might have been the only 5 minutes of our day I wasn't frustrated, which is horrible to think back on. But I have absolutely no idea, today, 10+ years later, what the frustrating or annoying or difficult parts of our day were. I remember what the happy part of our day was (kicking a conker back and forth on the walk home!) because I wrote it down and focused on it.

Reading about child development, if necessary a couple of years behind where my child is chronologically, can be helpful and give me perspective of where he is coming from.

I agree with this - I think OP needs some harsh replies because he is expecting her son to be emotionally mature. Poor boy is 4 and knows his mum doesn’t like him. So any attention - even negative is better than nothing

You need to talk to a family therapist, and possibly a therapist for yourself. There are reasons why you dislike your son, possibly related to your own relationships with your family, and you need to work on those, because it's not fair on him. He's only four.

What did you feel when he was born? Were you happy? Disappointed?

It sounds a bit like you're only seeing two ways of relating to him - adoration or total dislike. It's ok to be somewhere in the middle, you know, with flashes of both ends. You don't have to adore him unstintingly and never have a negative thought about him.

This sounds really tough OP. My child wasn't the easiest when he was younger and I was envious of other parents who had children that actually listened to them when they told them not to do something.
To be honest I read several books, I know all the advice, but nothing particularly helped. (Especially the idea of 'natural consequences', urgh.)
I was also worried about our relationship. It wasn't helped by the fact that he has a 'disney dad' who doesn't live with us, so the fact that I was the only one that ever said No or did any parenting made it worse. To help the relationship I made sure that every day we spent special time together. I followed the advice and we named it that, and every day after working, making dinner, etc. I made sure we had our special time and let him know that I was looking forward to it. Amongst all the 'No's that I had to say throughout the day, I made sure to give lots of praise and smiles.
I don't particularly like the idea of changing language to not say the word No, which is advice often given. But I did try the 'When' approach, ie. 'When you pick this up, then we can play.'
I also found that, when he was having a real tantrum, that cuddling him would also calm him down. Just holding him and cuddling him. Sometimes it was difficult when he was shouting in my face, but it often worked. I was reminded once that the telling off can come afterwards, when everyone is calmer, and that in the moment when emotions are raised, often isn't the best time.
He went through a really shouty stage around the age of 7 and 8, and when told No he would be really mean to me and say all sorts, including that he hated me. I stood firm. If I had said no, it was for a reason and being shouted at wasn't going to change that.
He is a lovely 14 year old now. Still argumentative occasionally when he wants more screen time 🙂 but knows the boundaries.

Why haven’t you spoken to your DH about the issues you have with your DS ? It seems strange that you feel his behaviour is worse when your DH is with you, yet you haven’t spoken to him about it ? Surely, he has noticed and has talked to you about it ?

Honestly, OP you need to talk to your GP about how you are feeling and ask to be referred somewhere for help.

I'm not going to go into detail about my own DS because I'd just be repeating what others have said, but I agree very much that a lot of what you've (both) said here really resonates - my son also has ADHD.