To not tell my kids the truth about why we had a second Easter?

[BookArt55]

My kids are young, 2 & 6. We celebrated Easter a week ago, because the very new court order states dad would have them until 6pm on Easter Sunday, first weekend contact since new court order has been put in place. They always come back extremely tired, disregulated and pretty often it feels like the eldest comes back angry with me. So I decided to celebrate a week early so we could enjoy our 'Easter with mummy'. We had a great time, and they understood they would have two Easters as next weekend was a weekend at their home with daddy.

Before handover this weekend, which would be the longest they have been away from me, i explain how many sleeps and that handover is around dinner time so they understand when they are coming back to their home with mummy. They like to know, it helps to settle them. Kids go off for their weekend with dad. I ask for dad to confirm whether he would be giving them dinner every Sunday before handover, his response is he is not giving them dinner as handover is at 9am (old court order timing). I just say okay as I am so used to him changing his mind last minute and trying to mess with me that I didn't hold my breath, especially as he knows Easter means a lot to me. But slightly surprised that at 9am the kids come back to me and we have a lovely second Easter.

Kids have now asked why I lied to them about coming home around dinner time, when it was after breakfast and why they had two Easters with me and no celebration with dad. No easter egg, repeat of christmas and one birthday with minimal effort being made. It took me by surprise, mainly because I was expecting it at bedtime last night, not tonight.

I said that mummy got the best Easter present, a second Easter with my two favourite people in the whole wide world. They didn't question any further.

But what would you say? I don't want them to know about any conflict with dad, but it was noted in court that Dad tells the kids adult issues and coparenting relationship is awful. But often my responses mean my eldest blames me for everything and not daddy. I'm worried this Easter I am getting the blame again, I suppose I am worried that my answers are putting me as the one who decided, that I am the reason they didn't get more daddy time...

Any suggestions on how to word dad choosing less time with the kids as not my fault, obviously not the kid's fault, but also not making the kids aware of the conflict?

Probably massively overthinking this. Second time in just over a week he has chosen to have less time, and always leaves it to the last minute when I've already prepped the kids with the plan to make them feel more comfortable. I try to leave it as late as possible before sharing the plan.

The kid's are just so used to getting conflicting messages and being told that mummy is the unkind, rude, mean one that I am trying to be careful with my choice of language so that I don't add to the way dad paints me to the kids.

Your Ex is a very poor loser Op and even if he loves his DC what's really important to him is getting his own back. Don't give him anything to work with _ don't say Daddy will do this or that, remember the DC will tell him what Mummy said and he'll use it against you. He lies about you to take away your DC trust in you so keep it factual but light.
As pp said keep records of everything, if he takes you back to court it could be very useful. Him shouting stay back at drop offs sounds like he's making out he's afraid of you so I'd keep all your recordings just incase.
It's wrong but he doesn't have the DC best interests at heart.

If he regularly doesn't do 6pm you could ask if you could have a variation. If he is abusive at the 6pm you could also ask for a variation. Get some proper advice .

I would still help the kids with their bags. Just say narrate your actions for the recording. By not helping you are giving him power. It is age appropriate to help them.

Eg. That looks heavy would you like me to help you with your bag.

If he shouts say calmly please don't shout you are upsetting the children.

Do you need to pack so much stuff?

6 pm is quite late home for a two year old. (Tea, bath, bed)

How stressful. I understand why you want to give them an outline of what is happening and for how long to give them a bit of information rather than having no idea what is going to happen. However, as he can't be relied on to be reliable I think you will have to keep it vague. With Easter, I would have 'your' Easter as planned but not mentioned 'Dad's Easter - just that they would be with him then. If they asked if they were having two - I would say - oh you will have to see what Daddy does. They can't then think you are misleading them.
As for Sundays I would say - see you on Sunday - if they ask when - I would say - see what Daddy says - I will be ready and waiting whatever time you're home.

I think you want to avoid being overly truthful at this stage - no matter how galling. I know people who have been through similar and eventually the kids do sadly see for themselves the reality of the situation.

BookArt55 I just wanted too say you sound like an amazing mum and I know what it's like to try to co parent with an abusive ex and for what it's worth you not challenging him on changing the time he dropped off was the right thing to do,if he was a reasonable person it would be different but he's not and your doing what you need too do to keep yourself and your children safe.

If it's off any comfort my abusive ex no longer has any contact with our 2DS,because as soon as they were old enough they figured him out by themselves,I never said anything bad about him but he badmouthed me so they cut contact with him when they were teenagers and their now in their 20s.

He sounds very similar to my ex husband even to the point of refusing to bring the children to the door! Our children were 3 and 4. We lived on a bus route, he used to leave the children down the road to struggle to my house with all their stuff. If I came out he would park further away or even across the road. The local neighbourhood kids used to help them up the road.
You are going to have years and years of this behaviour, and it will dominate your life if your not careful (I'm talking from experience)
If his main purpose is just to make your life he'll, give him the least resistance that you can. With no or very little response he should get board.
Don't allow yourself to get court up in who's right or wrong or if he's keeping to the court order or not. Just don't get drawn in!
He thrives off the thought that his behaviour is bothering you. He knows the children are the most important thing to you, unfortunately they are cataract damage.
Never slag him off to the kids or infront of them, don't try to co parent with him, look at parallel parenting instead. If the kids come back and say you have said this or that. Just say that's dads opinion.
Kids know they really do, actions are much stronger than words. Your children (as mine do) will figure out who's the proper parent and who's the parent that they're not safe with. My own children are a testermant to that! They haven't seen their father for about 5 years as there's now a no contact order in place. But his behaviour was dreadful, really abusive to me and the kids. I've never flagged him off to the kids, I've always quietly kept my own. But they know they really do.
Feel free to pm me if you want to talk in more depth.

I'd say you had double Easter cos Daddy decided to drop them off early. Truth and not judgemental. And exactly as you did, aren't you lucky to get a second Easter lunch with them!!

Going forward, agree with others just "3 sleeps and home Sunday, Daddy will let you know what time incase he needs to change it"

I think you need to stick to the court ordered times. Do not budge unless it’s an avoidable emergency. You are undermining the court order and yourself and allowing him to dictate. For anything less than teenagers I would expect the children to have been fed before 6pm.

Dont be a doormat.

I’d go with this too. No unnecessary detail, just simple and clear and at a level they can understand. My relationship ended due to infidelity, when my kids (similar age to yours) asked why he’d left I simply said because he had got another girlfriend, and it wasn’t ok to do that. No bad-mouthing, no criticism, just clear info they could understand.

Telling your kids pretty stories about their dickhead dad just means they crash when they do realise he’s a dickhead, or they think he did nothing wrong and his behaviour is acceptable. My children are both adults now, and still love their dad, but are under no illusions about him being a great bloke. (They’ve watched him crash through several relationships since he left, and can see him for what he is)

You have to love your children more than you hate each other.

They should not be drawn into something like this. It confuses them. How can that make them happy?

I just say daddy changed the time/cancelled. When they inevitably ask me why I say I don’t know he didn’t tell me.

I make sure I don’t insult their dad or make snide comments but I learnt not to try make them excited or happy to go. They pick up he doesn’t want them and is using contact to fuck with me. I just say it’s your time with daddy it’s important you spend time it’s both parents.

initially they used to come home spouting shit he said to them and I would firmly say “that’s not how I remember it” and “I’m not discussing this with you this is grown up stuff don’t worry about it”. I’ve made a point of highlighting with my kids we like different things or remember things differently so that it’s not just things with their dad that I’m saying this about. Eg. I hate pink but dd likes pink and that’s ok to like different things. Ds remembers watching x film at the cinema but dd thinks it was on Netflix- let’s not fight about it we remember it differently but it doesn’t matter. Etc.

then after a few years of this and me not reacting he moved from trying to mess with contact to just having less of it. Initially his new gf did all the parenting and we had a couple good year but then she had a baby and stepped back and ex is a terrible father the kids are scared and unhappy. I used to report all his abuse and tried in court to protect them but I obviously lost so now it’s recorded I make false allegations. Literally nothing I can do to stop contact. I just tell the kids they are due to go then if he cancels or brings them home early I just say I don’t know why. The times my kids have begged me not to send them I’ve listened to their concerns and made comments like I understand how you feel (without putting words/emotions into their head) and then say we have a court order daddy really wanted a relationship with you and I have to do as the court decided. Of course if they were telling me he was beating them or very clear abuse I would start the fight again but it’s all low level neglect emotional abuse I can’t prove and just a shit dad. I do however make a point in my safety conversations with the kids to say if they are ever hurt or worried about how mummy or daddy treat them then their teacher is the person to tell. I make sure I say they can tell on me knowing I’m not abusive and hope one day if they need to they will tell a teacher because when they tell me I can’t help them without any proof.

at the moment your ex is using contact to mess you about. With the short notice bringing them back early that will be to mess up your plans etc. he’s using contact to hurt you. You need to stay impartial and not lead the kids either way of thinking- don’t try make them happy and don’t imply they should not be happy. You need to be steadfast and reliable for the kids. Because once him messing with contact stops getting him his high he will probably drop off and if you have been saying daddy loves you blah blah blah that will hurt even more. Just stay impartial. My now 10 year old was 1 when I left ex, she now makes comments about how daddy doesn’t like her being there daddy says lies about mummy and I just make noises that I’m listening and don’t agree or disagree with her might say well I don’t know how daddy feels I’m not daddy or I don’t know what it’s like at daddy house I’m not there etc but I know I love you more than anything and offer a hug if she needs.

it’s wrong but people advising you to get external help probably don’t understand the system. Without any proof you won’t get far and will make it worse as he wants you to rise to it. You need to be grey rock and try not to let it bother you because he’s got this power with contact for years yet during which you need to be sane md stable and reliable and not emotionally all over the place for your kids

You'll be back home before tea time, daddy will tell you what time you need to be ready for

@Burntt thanks for this, your post really shows you understand and are living this situation where no matter what we do we know our kids aren't getting the deal we want for them. Some really good advice. I've taken some of the wording that people have said here and written it down. Feel like I need to have these phrases in my back pocket ready to use when the kids surprise me with something. I never say anything bad about dad, but even saying I disagree about what dad says makes my eldest very upset. I've been doing as you suggest about I like this, you don't, that's okay. I've also played games of fact or opinion, and like you say we do it about everything except dad to try and build those skills which they can potentially transfer to dad when that time arrives. Thank you for this, really felt understood and at the same time great advice.

I don't hate my ex. I just want any contact and joint decisions to be about the children and what is in their best interests. Dad isn't capable of that yet. I am trying to make myself a better mum to support the kids when dad chooses to involve them in adult issues which is why I sought this advice. I know I'm not handling it the best, far from it. I need to change my approach and the advice here has been amazing.

I think your statement shows you haven't dealt with a high conflict coparent, especially after getting out of an abusive relationship. I can't change his actions, which is why my question is how do I respond, how do I put my kid's needs first. The advice I have received has been unbelievably helpful and actually helped me earlier today in another discussion with my eldest when he raised a worry. I felt so much more prepared after this post.

I love my kids more than anything.

I understand. The children are too young to. You don't need to explain anything to them, because they do not have the capacity to understand anything at the moment.

If something isn't happening the way they thought, they will not hang on to it for ages and wonder what went wrong unless you keep raising the subject. Things don't always gel the way we want them, but children are not on the same wavelength as adults, and you cannot expect them to understand. Next time it is his turn on a bank holiday, say nothing, and do nothing special and unusual before they go to dad's..

You wanted to celebrate Easter with them, and unfortunately Easter was dad's turn to have them. Why complicate their lives by celebrating Easter the week before? Why not just wait until they return from dad's and present them with their Easter egg.

Were you concerned they were missing church, (that is if you are church goers)? They are too young to understand someone dying for them. They just understand Easter eggs at the moment.

Going back over things because you think it might help (help who? You?)is like sewing seeds of doubt in their minds about you both, not just the dad who may or may not have cocked it up for you.

All you need to do when his turn to have them comes, is pack them off to dad, with appropriate clothes and say nothing about anything. Never question them when they return. Of course they will be tired. Change makes adults tired, so it is normal.

If this type of situation comes up again I would just say something like "I don't know what Daddy's plans are for Easter so we're having an early Easter just in case you aren't back until later on Easter Sunday"

I would tell your children, that dad will let them know what time he is bringing them back, it's upto dad when you are with him. It isn't fair that you are trying to appease everyone but you are coming off worse. You should always be honest, well as honest as you can be....it isn't fair for you....you matter too....

Well said.

You are in a very difficult situation. The really evil abusers don't change their behaviour just because you've physically separated, and they are definitely not co-parenting material. It is a travesty thst the family courts do not acknowledge that.

@Burntta very wise post.

What would have happened if you weren't at home when he dropped them back?

Honestly just tell them the truth to an extent. ‘Mummy was told you’d be back for dinner but that changed. I didn’t lie but I’m happy you’re back early’.

My mum tried to shadow me from the reality of my parents divorce and it did make me blame her. When I found out the truth it was a second betrayal as it rewrote years of my life. Don’t insult dad, keep it age appropriate, but don’t be a martyr and take all the bad rap. He’s certainly not protecting their image of you. Also remind dad of the new timings.

We meet at a supermarket carpark so he would show up at the supermarket and then tell the kids mummy didn't show up, mummy doesn't want you, etc. He would then become angry and take it out on them the rest of the day.

You said Easter means a lot to you. Do you think you and your DC would be less upset about what happened if it had been a regular Sunday? It could be you’ve conflated 2 issues here. Maybe you could have been more low-key about Easter.

This is emotional abuse. I’d call your local mash team for advice and guidance.

That's awful if that's what he's dripping into them.

You must get professional help with this because it will not end well if you don't .

Feel for you.

You sound really wonderful @BookArt55 - and it’s an incredibly difficult situation you’re in and learning as much as you can on how to deal with it and be none inflammatory but maintain strict boundaries is difficult.

dont forget the self care though!!!

take care and sending lots of strength x