To not tell my kids the truth about why we had a second Easter?

[BookArt55]

My kids are young, 2 & 6. We celebrated Easter a week ago, because the very new court order states dad would have them until 6pm on Easter Sunday, first weekend contact since new court order has been put in place. They always come back extremely tired, disregulated and pretty often it feels like the eldest comes back angry with me. So I decided to celebrate a week early so we could enjoy our 'Easter with mummy'. We had a great time, and they understood they would have two Easters as next weekend was a weekend at their home with daddy.

Before handover this weekend, which would be the longest they have been away from me, i explain how many sleeps and that handover is around dinner time so they understand when they are coming back to their home with mummy. They like to know, it helps to settle them. Kids go off for their weekend with dad. I ask for dad to confirm whether he would be giving them dinner every Sunday before handover, his response is he is not giving them dinner as handover is at 9am (old court order timing). I just say okay as I am so used to him changing his mind last minute and trying to mess with me that I didn't hold my breath, especially as he knows Easter means a lot to me. But slightly surprised that at 9am the kids come back to me and we have a lovely second Easter.

Kids have now asked why I lied to them about coming home around dinner time, when it was after breakfast and why they had two Easters with me and no celebration with dad. No easter egg, repeat of christmas and one birthday with minimal effort being made. It took me by surprise, mainly because I was expecting it at bedtime last night, not tonight.

I said that mummy got the best Easter present, a second Easter with my two favourite people in the whole wide world. They didn't question any further.

But what would you say? I don't want them to know about any conflict with dad, but it was noted in court that Dad tells the kids adult issues and coparenting relationship is awful. But often my responses mean my eldest blames me for everything and not daddy. I'm worried this Easter I am getting the blame again, I suppose I am worried that my answers are putting me as the one who decided, that I am the reason they didn't get more daddy time...

Any suggestions on how to word dad choosing less time with the kids as not my fault, obviously not the kid's fault, but also not making the kids aware of the conflict?

Probably massively overthinking this. Second time in just over a week he has chosen to have less time, and always leaves it to the last minute when I've already prepped the kids with the plan to make them feel more comfortable. I try to leave it as late as possible before sharing the plan.

The kid's are just so used to getting conflicting messages and being told that mummy is the unkind, rude, mean one that I am trying to be careful with my choice of language so that I don't add to the way dad paints me to the kids.

I think you need to go into less detail. So you’re going to Dads and will be back on Sunday. If they ask what time- say Oh I’m not sure but anytime will be fine.
If they’re asking / quoting stuff the Dads said about spending the money- simply say “oh that’s not true honey, don’t worry about things like that.”
Dont give them a reaction to pass back to their Dad. They do not need to be involved in such detail. Especially at a young age.

Im sorry your ex is being silly with what he says to them. It’s very unfair.

💐

Not sure why you’re telling me this? I was just passing on my understanding of what the posters were referring to.

Just don’t promise them stuff because you don’t know if he will actually do it.

Say “you are going to Dads house and I will see you on Sunday”.

Don’t put them in the middle of your drama.

They will soon be old enough to see him for who he really is.

You didn't lie to them. Dad changed his mind. Just tell them that. It sounds like he's trying to poison their minds against you. Deliberately changing plans and then saying 'well mummy was lying when she said...' I can't imagine them accusing you of lying off their own bat?

Thank you so much for this, I've screenshot to look back at when I'm having a wallowing moment. Really great advice and I really appreciate the time you took to write it and your kind words. It's almost like you knew more about me than I've even put on here!

My biggest worry is that the kids listen to him, just like I did for so long, and they 'choose' him. So thank you for some hope there!

OP said that this is the first contact since a new court order stating handover at 6pm. Why would it not be a surprise to OP to have the kids handed over at 9am when that’s not the legal arrangement ? She had to tell the children something because it was Easter.

I responded to your post that seemed to be advising the type of support OP could expect from early help. Responding to posts is how a mumsnet thread works, kind of like a conversation 🙄

If you're intent on drawing battle-lines and keep reinforcing it with divisive vocabulary, the "mummy time" versus "daddy time" and saying your Easter is the best Easter in the world, you'll eventually end up with very screwed up children. Be aware that parental alienation is a thing.

İf he changes the drop off time, you don't have to go surely?

You can just reply 'see you at six pm outside İceland'

Sorry he's doing this to you. I would also write down about the kids not getting any help with their backpacks.

Sounds to me like you handled it perfectly

@SunflowersVanGough thank you so much for this. The tips like telling and making sure the return time is in it which is so helpful, and came from experience. Thank you for all of this great help, definitely taking it on board. Appreciate your time!

Hopefully you mean OP's ex-DH when you talk about parental alienation. She never criticises her ex to the children and always tries to put a positive spin on their time with their dad.

OP's ex does the exact opposite. He ignores the court order to suit himself and the kids come back from time with him saying things like 'Mummy why do you spend all of my money and all of daddy's money?'

He was an abusive husband and he uses the children to carry on the abuse after the divorce.

Easter is over so there's no need to revisit discussing this weekend but maybe try a different approach going forward. I'm wondering if perhaps you're giving them too much information about the specifics of what will happen. It's enough to say you're going to Daddy's. Don't tell them anything specific about what will happen at Daddy's (second Easter, home after dinner etc) because he's so unpredictable that you don't actually know what will happen. If they ask just say 'that's up to Daddy.'

I think you're going a bit overboard with the explanations, and that's confusing the kids - but I totally understand why.

Next time I think just go for @BigHeadBertha's suggestion:

"No, I didn't lie. Daddy just changed his mind, that's all. Now, let's have our special Easter."

And just stick to "don't forget you're going to Daddy's tomorrow" or whatever, and don't get drawn into the 6 year old's questions. Just say you don't know, it's up to daddy what you do there or something.

Good luck, he sounds like an absolute tool.

Did ex txt you new pick up time - show the 6 year old -look daddy wanted me to get you at 9 so I changed the plans

You need to visually record the drop offs and pick ups as that sounds ridiculous. Pop your phone in a top pocket and put it on video record or get a go pro. Standing back telling you not to come any further while allowing his children to struggle with their things. Absolute arsehole, but he's doing it to make you out to be the dangerous one.

Sounds like you won't have him in your life for much longer tbh, sounds like he cba. He gets till 6pm and drops them back at 9am. That's a bloke who feels he has something better to be doing with his Sunday.

What a difficult balancing act you have. You want to give your children routine and certainty and he is pissing that up the wall and worse setting you up to look flakey and inconsistent in front of the children. Don't absorb the blame for his manipulation and game playing. Obviously you don't want to fan any flames/ give him any ammunition, but if they bring up the change in tome, just clarify the situation without attributing blame "My understanding was you were coming back at X time. It's lovely to see you now though. Let's do xyz" and move on the conversation to something else.

I feel for you .

I think you need to stop protecting their feelings that come from their dads actions - that are at the detriment of their view of you.I understand why you do it - you are thinking of their feelings - but , if it leads to them seeing you as unreliable when they already have an unreliable dad then they will suffer.

When they go , say you will see them again on X day - not a specific time . That way , that’s the truth of it. If they ask about times say you aren’t sure but Daddy knows .

The only thing that could be an issue - is Dad saying “ you have to go back at X time because Mummy said “ - I wouldn’t put it past some of these men to be honest . That itself is unfair and I don’t see how you can combat that - maybe like others have said , see if early help can support in any way ?

When dealing with a difficult ex and your kids, remember JADE; don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. It just gets you drawn into his game playing and it will unsettle the kids.
There's a difference between preparing your kids for what's about to happen, and micromanaging your kids feelings, and to me it sounds like you cross that line.
Be more vague. Don't lay out the itinerary for the weekend your ex has his kids. And be more matter of fact about the whole thing. Stop it with the 'special time with Mummy'; they need to adjust to the change and that kind of thing isn't helping them.
You don't need to defend your position. Don't get drawn into playing games with your ex, rise above it. You are the parent. You need to give them a sense of security. If they pick up that you feel insecure, it won't help them.

I struggle with the fact that you didn't point out to him he's got the timing wrong.
It feels a bit martyr ish.
Also it's up to the dad what he does at his house. So don't make assumptions about what he is going to do. (eg Not everyone does "Easter" stuff.) And don't tell the kids your ideas.
You seem to be in bits thinking your child thinks you lied. You just say I got it wrong it wasn't a lie, sorry you're feeling confused. Don't make a big drama about how he made you lie. Because that's not what happened

OP, the parenting app should have a calendar so I’d make sure the court ordered times and dates are noted in there and if he wants to change them the communications to and fro should be recorded there, as will any other communication. Never say anything on the app you don’t want CAFCASS or a Family Judge to see.

I understand why you record handovers to reduce his control over you; he’s being very devious by avoiding the CCTV.

Vague but honest is the way to go with the children.

I have a feeling once he loses direct control over you, you may have a bigger hill to climb as he sees the children less or tries to alienate them against you. There will always be someone here who has been through it though and can help.

Courts are very pragmatic regarding Orders. They understand that they aren’t set in stone if both parties agree and are flexible but if one party is taking the micky and causing conflict you will have the details in the app to fall back on.

It is possible for non-resident parents to parent well but, sadly, it doesn’t sound as if he’s going to get an award in that class. His conduct in Court will show the true him. Good luck to you and the children.

I've never said my time is better than daddy's. If anything this post is about me not wanting to blame or be negative about the other parent but find language and actions that supports the kids but doesn't mean I accept the blame. I wouldn't agree with those actions, definitely putting the kids in the middle which isn't right, they have to put up with enough in this situation.

Really grateful for all of the advice, it has given me lots to think about with how I can change my actions and expectations moving forward which is exactly what I needed. I've come a long way in the last year, but I definitely still have some way to go. Thank you for taking the time to share, it has really, really helped!
I don't doubt I'll be back again for more advice because he is the gift that keeps giving! 🤣

They won’t. They will see and respect a strong mum and woman who knows how to do normal, respect and boundaries.

Organise them counselling if they need it, as well. Teach them healthy boundaries and the toolkit needed to deal with unhealthy people. Listen to them, acknowledge their feelings, but don’t let them be rude to you or be unkind. Remember the court order is the bricks - stick to it and build a wall. It’s there to protect you. Be flexible in an emergency but not for a whim. Some men don’t like a court telling them what to do - or anyone telling them. They push those boundaries and they encourage the children too.

This is your tree, you are a sapling growing into a strong oak - flexible when it needs to be, but core and roots strong. You are reliable and strong. Nancy Reagan once said ‘a woman is like a tea bag you never know how strong she is until she is in hot water’- it gets easier.