Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

”Transwomen” without GRCs should NEVER have been in women’s single sex spaces, irrespective of this judgment. Organisations who permitted this were discriminating against and harassing women.

It was only TW with a GRC who could ever have potentially had the right. Given that was only a tiny proportion of them, all this ruling really means is that the de facto self ID pushed on our public and private organisations by Stonewall, but has never been the law of this land, is at an end.

I don’t think you understood my post.

Did all this speculation only happened after the Supreme Court ruling or was it before?

What an awful lot of effort and expense for a pointless document. The NHS and public sector really need to stop doing this to people with dysphoria it’s fucking cruel

So you quoted me but then just ignored the very first sentence of the quote? You don’t have to justify the ruling to me when you literally quoted me saying I support it!

Of course women can work on multiple fronts but I see a whoooole lot of “work” being done on the trans women population that makes up 0.01% of the UK population, and never a conversation about the 49.9% of cis men who make up our population. You say laws already exist to stop the male population, but they already exist for every population! Just because someone identifies as a trans woman doesn’t make it legal for them to enter a woman’s space and assault her. You also admit that these laws don’t actually stop men…so what makes you think they’ll stop trans women?

Men attack women in women's spaces all the time. Men who were born as men. Dress as men. Live and identify as men. So this ruling means very, very little when it comes to keeping dangerous men out of women’s spaces. They have never required this “loophole” to attack us.

You say how many “additional” women need to be harmed before we take action? Firstly, the “action” you wanted has literally just been taken. Secondly no additional women have been harmed. Women are being attacked no more and no less than we’ve always been. The (tiny) number of trans women in the UK who have attacked women are men. They were men before and they are men now. Take away their legal access to women’s spaces and they’ll enter them anyway, as they have always done and/or they find another way to harm us.

I completely agree with the ruling. However I do not agree that we are safer because of it. I want to know specifically what is being done to make us safer in our spaces. Telling men, whether cis men or trans women, hey you can’t go in there and attack any women or girls now y’here? Hasn’t stopped then before.

Probably - but now businesses and organisations will be remiss on their duty if they don’t do something about it

I also doubt that ratio given the level of sexual crimes committed by TW

If issued at a date when the person was a child they should be accurate.

Why don’t you want women to be able to have single sex spaces?
the amount of whatabouttery and ludicrous “gotchas” are pathetic. If you keep up with these stupid ideas service providers could just choose to exclude transmen from women’s spaces which the ruling covers.

And they couldn’t/didn’t prior to Wednesday?

My best friend is a butch lesbian. Shes 5’10” has short hair and buys clothes from the men’s section. Shes never been mistaken for a man, not once (the tits and female voice, if nothing else, usually give it away).

And to avoid that inconvenience rapists should be referred to as women and male fetishists allowed to invade women’s groups?

JFC it’s not about sexuality - it’s about sex. A gay male nurse shouldn’t be providing intimate care to a woman. Because he a man. A lesbian nurse can. Because she’s a woman.

O don’t get changed ina cubicle of none are available. And whilst it’s not ideal o don’t mind changing in a woman’s communal space. I have a HUGE problem with changing in front of men though.

As trans women are men they commit sex crimes at the same rate as men. However they make up a tiny percentage of the population. So you are literally talking around 150 people in a population of 68m. So we are not significantly safer now than we were last week.

So did I. And I still don’t want to share my single sex spaces with men irrespective of their gender identity.

Well if its ONLY 150 violent rapists, fuck it, let them in a prison cell with women! 150 raped and traumatised women is a tiny amount!

BTW it’s more than that.

OR we could not use women as collateral damage to placate men’s delusions?

Fucking hell it REALLY is hard for some people to give women basic respect. Or even view them as human.

I voted you abu for the following reason.

A trans man goes into a women's space, and tells you that it's ok because they are a trans, so they are actually a woman by your definition. And as far as the Equality Act goes, the high court says so too.

Here is someone who presents and acts like a man. What recourse do we have? What proof do we have that he is a trans man and not a predator?

So men couldn’t and wouldn’t before Wendy go into women’s toilets/changing rooms and say “I identify as a woman” even though they look like men? Of course they would! Except now we can challenge it.

Fucking hell it REALLY is hard for some people to give women basic respect. Or even view them as human.

This.

I mean seriously? Misogyny is an enormous problem in our society it seems.

People saying that trans women aren’t a threat are probably right 99.9% of the time, but how do you know which ones are a threat to you? Not all men, but which ones? I don’t know how it’s so hard to grasp.

I work with a trans women who has had the full transition many years ago now, and she understands the worry from cis women as she (in her words) ‘knows what men are like’ relating to her past friendships/experiences. I have a lot of respect for her. You would never question her use of female spaces because quite frankly you’d never know. If you’re genuinely serious about being transgender then you need to show it by having the full transition, until then accept that women will rightly so feel uncomfortable in your presence.

Transmen are generally easily identifiable due to their height, gait, hips, voice, feet/hand size - I could go on.

But seriously. Everyone knows what sex they are. Can men just please start doing the decent thing and stay out of spaces that don't belong to them

Are people saying they’d really want this in the women’s toilets with them?

While I see what you're saying, there is no such thing as a 'full transition'. No human can change sex. I feel sympathy for people like your friend but no hormones or surgery are making him a woman either.

I agree with that, I also agree with transwomen not participating in women's sports at a professional level, I think that's proportionate and there will be systems in place which make sure it only impacts the people it should.
I don't agree with toilets or changing spaces being monitored by women who may make an unfair observation of what they perceive to be a man in toilets or changing rooms, it will do more harm than good. Especially when it comes to teenagers, some teens aren't easily identified as girl or boy. Some teens are also vicious bullies and would relish in telling an girl who isn't feminine they aren't welcome.

Look, bullying should never be tolerated and there's no reason why it should be tolerated here.

But women deserve changing space away from men if they'd prefer it. Think of the impact on orthodox religious women who could never use mixed changing rooms due to their religious requirements.