Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

We don’t need to have any.

women have said for years that GRA/GRR/self ID was incompatible with women’s rights. We were told we were wrong and that trans right didn’t impact wonen’s.

The SC has just confirmed what a lot of us believed to be fact; that ‘woman’ and sex in the EA 2010 means female and biological sex.

Are you now claiming that women’s rights do in fact clash with what you think are existing trans rights? Or are you just trying to emotionally manipulate women into giving up our sex based rights in favour of men with different identities?

No

No, but someone with a vagina makes me feel a lot more comfortable than someone with a penis regardless

I know you don’t want to hear this, @redbusbeepbeep , but the “woman” in your previous post is just as male as that yoke.

I don't think they will enter more after this ruling, nor do I think men who are there to harm women will enter less.

They don't have a vagina because that's not possible to achieve with surgery.

I understand the point about not having a penis from a safety point of view, but this person still retain male advantages around strength and stamina.

Doesn’t bother me, but she has a vagina, I don’t care how she got it I wouldn’t feel threatened by her if I was next to her in a changing room. Other people might but you’d never know anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️

Look up misogynoir and the history of womanism

If they enter now, women will be much more empowered to challenge them and that will be enough to stop some if not all.

Well they wouldn't be able to go swimming any where near me. The 4 pools I've used are all unisex changing villages.

You can't speak for anyone else as whether they'd know or not. Regardless, this person knows and should show respect for women by not entering their spaces.

God I would LOVE just one sensible conversation about this without hyperbole.

Those 150 (it’s not more actually, it’s less. I’m rounding up) are the number in prison. Not all 150 are violent rapists. 60 were convicted of sexual crimes, most of them not rape.

I think the judges got the ruling 100% correct. I fully support it. However if we are being sensible the absolute factual reality is that trans women did not pose a significant threat to women so we are not significantly safer. If we want to be significantly safer we have to broaden this conversation instead of going on and on and on about trans women.

We are overwhelmingly attacked in our women’s spaces by cis gendered men. So clearly saying men are not allowed in our spaces (whether trans women or cis men) doesn’t keep us safe. So what now? How do we actually stop men, of any kind, from entering our spaces. Because cis men have never been allowed to come in our spaces but they’ve been doing it anyway. What makes us think this ruling stops anyone from doing anything??

Oh the barista at Starbucks can intervene now if they see a trans woman enter the women’s bathrooms?

Oh guess what? When a man (trans woman or otherwise) wants to enter a woman’s bathroom to attack woman they don’t just stroll in before a crowd and attack someone with witnesses around. They sneak in, undetected and harm lone women. So whether they snuck in dressed as a women or as a man it doesn’t matter. They pick a moment when no one can see, hear or know what’s happening.

A trans woman doesn’t stroll brazenly into a busy woman’s bathroom and attack a woman and a ha ha no one can stop me because I’m trans and I’m allowed in here 🙄 Raping another human has always been illegal. That’s why it’s always done in secret.

I'm not sure what the relevance of that point is. No they won't be able to use unisex changing rooms. They won't be able to use female changing rooms that men can infiltrate. Can't we do the decent thing and ensure there is a space to accommodate them? Not necessarily in every pool, but some?

So you think the ruling is correct, but also that transwomen don't pose any threat to women?

Why do you support the ruling then?

Hmm no, but she looks like a women, speaks like a women, has breasts and a ‘vagina’ so it’s unlikely people would question it. I have no issue and trust her because I know her, fair enough other people wouldn’t but I also understand why she isn’t going to go into the men’s changing room when she has characteristics of a women

Also, Black women and women who aren't conventionally attractive have always been harassed and classed as non-women. E.g. larger, more simply dressed, working class and so on. They are now less safe.
This is truly flabbergasting.
Non women 🤯
I’d hate to be inside your head @OhWhistle
What a truly bizarre place it must be.

I’m absolutely against trans women in women spaces, but honestly after a proper transition I wouldn’t expect someone with a vagina (surgically made or not) to use the men’s toilets/changing rooms, especially as the men wouldn’t know she is a trans women. The risk towards them is still the same

They have all the physicality of a man however still. Skeletal, gait, shoulder to hip ratio, knee and hip angles. Humans are surprisingly good at recognising sex, particularly women. Just because people don't say anything doesn't mean they don't know

That's why third spaces are the answer here

They can use a unisex facility, there are enough of them about.

Unisex changing spaces can still be subject to sex discrimination claims by women who feel unable to participate without a clear single sex space to use as an alternative. If I were a service provider I wouldn't hang my hat on these being used to "get round" the ruling.

It's astonishing how many people think it's hard to correctly sex someone.

Over the last week, and on many occasions in the past, I've remarked to myself whilst listening to interviews on the radio that it's almost impossible to mistake a TW for a female - even those who have really tried to feminise their voice. It's jarring to hear a deep voice talking about their experience as a woman. And before anyone jumps in, yes, some women do have deep voices, but much more rarely of the kind that could be mistaken for male than a TW's could be mistaken as female.

Isn't it more about refuges and prisons than toilets?

I mean what I say. Cismen. Why are you telling me what I mean? Are you a man? Or the kind of woman who'll keep me 'safe' provided I agree with you?

Cismen who have never questioned their gender have privilege going right back to Athens.

Queening gender is a feminist act.

Fair enough, it just isn’t something that would bother me personally