Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

Search terms 'misogynoir', 'Sapphire', and 'womanism' will help.

officers with a certificate they bought for a fiver to say they are really a lady.

Take your point. But that's not how GRC's work. Years waiting on the NHS lists right now or forking out hundreds just for an appointment where they assess you for hormone suitability, and you can stil be refused a diagnosis, and then after all of that you need letters from 2 medical professionals for the actual GRC application after it's been a certain timeframe. Think the local clinic in my area has a waitlist over 10 years long, and a private appointment (not the diagnosis itself just the initial 1st appointment) cost about £500.

Nobody pays a fiver for one.

You said it yourself "most trans women are not a threat".

So overjoyed about the ruling. Op , I am also astonished about all the genuine women protesting alongside the TRAs. Fucking mind-boggling. YANBU!!!!

Because surely 99% of trans women just want to live as they choose and will not harm or abuse anyone, but that 1% who want to access womens spaces just to abuse them will do it either way.

Do you leave your front door open at night or the keys in your car overnight? The majority of the population don’t want to burgle your house or steal your car. But most people lock their doors anyway to at least TRY and stop that minority doing these things. I mean some burglars will break in and burgle your house anyway so I guess you may as well just leave the door open then or the keys in the car right? Because if these bad people will just do it anyway why try and stop them?

Thinking about it, I know a few people who don't lock their front doors at night. I often forget to do it myself, I just go off to bed. Might have to set a reminder for this on my phone now.

If someone is so depraved that they want to sexually assault someone they will find a way, stopping trans women from going into women's toilets won't save anyone.

but stopping any old man just saying ‘I’m a woman’ and be given free reign to women’s spaces will right? You can’t argue against that can you?

I've very sorry to hear that you have been sexuallly assaulted by women multiple times in your life and know of lots of people who've been assaulted by female childminders. I'm sure that knowing the vanishingly small likelihood of that happening is of no comfort to you.

What do you mean by "I feel less safe seeing the violence with which binaries are being enforced in the name of my rights." What binaries are being enforced and who is commiting violence to do so?

OP your friends need to get angry at Stonewall. We would probably have been fine with the blurred edge fudging of trans inclusion that we've had for years.

But such organisations got extreme and demanded unfair male inclusion in female sports and for basically any man wearing women's clothing - no surgery etc to be counted as actual women.

I think this is about fairness for women and stopping extreme, unreasonable ideas. Yes it's a hard verdict but that's because women were forced to get hard and get this clarification.

Exactly this. As people often point out, transwomen (and men) have been around forever. While there was always single sex spaces I’m in no doubt trans people would use the “wrong” sex toilet and I’m pretty sure everyone just muddled through. This was never an issue decades ago. No one even mentioned it as far as I remember. I don’t remember any transwoman with a penis in changing rooms.

But then came the “inclusivity”. The insistence no one needed surgery or hormones or even change how they look to be a woman. It was all on someone’s say so only. This is where it all started to go wrong. The insistence that trans women were ACTUAL women. What is wrong with being a transwoman? It shouldn’t be shameful.

I've seen some proper bollocks posted following this judgment. Someone on insta earlier was banging on about how women will now need to prove they are women in order to be searched by a female police officer. Err.. ....what?
There's been a lot of trying to spin it as a bad thing for women and TRAs are really having to tie themselves in knots to do it.

It's not a small likelihood. Just underrecognised and underreported. It carries a lot of shame culturally and meets with disbelief.

Why don't we make all children's nursery's accessible to anyone. I mean a paedophile will find a way to assault a child so why try to stop them?

They have to listen to actual real women now.

And if Stonewall had used this common sense around trans inclusion and had boundaries and limitations and campaigned for 'open' facilities / sports teams etc it could have been very different. It wasn't long ago that Stonewall probably did agree with all these but it got more and more unreasonable.

However men can just say ‘I’m a trans man’ and enter female spaces, this just makes it easier for the actually dangerous men now.

Would you like to point me to video footage of an actual woman who wants to be treated as a woman but is not clearly female when seen in person?

how many threads are you going to spam this post to? It doesn't make it any truer the more times you post it.

I was thinking of starting a poll of how many MNers have:

A transwoman friend who is 5'4 has had 'all the surgeries' and the poster didn't even realise was transwoman until they were told;

Or, a transman friend who is over 6 foot and muscle bound and is indistinguishable from a man;

Or, a teenage DD/DDs friend who is over 5'10 and androgynous and is constantly being accused of being a man in public toilets;

Or, a butch lesbian friend who is constantly being accused of being a man in public toilets.

I'm up to at least 10 since Wednesday. It's amazing.

Why is it amazing? Why are you surprised at people discussing people they know on threads about them? Mumsnet has 8 million monthly users according to their own stats. 10 posters is a tiny proportion of those.

Totally agree with you OP.

I've seen the most bizarre rhetoric from fiercely intelligent women about how this is 'another attempt by the patriarchy to control us'. Er... sorry... WHAT!? How is banning biological men from women's spaces a 'win' for biological men?

Also, I've noticed how, as a counter argument, people are now whatabout-ing about transmen... how women have now 'shot themselves in the foot' because transmen will now be forced to use the female bathroom. Firstly, they won't. And, secondly, even if they are, they are biological females, so would be totally welcome. Obviously.

And do not get me started on the absolute bile I've seen online from transwomen towards women. Just so nasty and perfectly highlighting WHY women don't want them in their spaces!!

Women will not be safer, this puts more women at risk my friend is very tall, has fairly masculine features. She will be questioned, ridiculed and asked to use men's spaces while any male predators will still be predators

As per my last post, this rhetoric is frankly bullshit. Masculine looking women are just that. And transmen are biological women, however they present. Hope that helps.

BATSHIT.