Page 16 | Of course women will be safer

HardyKoala · 2025-04-20T11:11:37+00:00

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion. The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault. Of course they will. But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below. They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop. Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces. I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us. The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

BundleBoogie · 21/04/2025 11:52

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 11:13

You absolutely can detect sex by looking with a very high degree of accuracy. Don't be silly.

And now that the law has been clarified, any man who tries to infiltrate women's spaces, knows that this is wrong and they are breaking the law. Those men need to act with decency and stay out.

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It’s this weird new affliction some have developed that I’m calling sex blindness (or trans activism for short).

It’s never been an issue before but now people are really struggling to discern people’s sex - so they claim.

BundleBoogie · 21/04/2025 11:54

Stompythedinosaur · 21/04/2025 11:10

You cannot tell who's a man and who's a woman from looking. So this ruling changes nothing. Rapists and abusers will continue to break the rules and go where they like.

In fact, if we become accustomed to seeing trans-men in female spaces, that makes it really easy for male-presenting people to go unquestioned.

If a week ago we assumed a rapist was willing to claim to be a trans-woman, why on earth would they not now claim to be a trans-man?

Even dogs and horses can tell the sex of a person - even if they have tried to
disguise it.

Seriously, your claim is outlandish and ridiculous.

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 11:56

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:49

You’re presupposing my views. The OP has stated that as a female I’ve woken up safer because trans women now can’t enter single sex spaces. I’m asking for evidence relating to trans women specifically to demonstrate that I was ever unsafe. Is it because ‘trans women are men’ ? Is that it?

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Yes transwomen are men. They offend at least the same rates as other men, so why would they be given special treatment in this regard?

As for your safety, I agree there are plenty of privileged women who are unlikely to see much difference.

The people who will see themselves better protected here are female prisoners, women in domestic abuse shelters, women in hospital wards, women needing rape counselling services, sick/disabled women needing intimate care. Also, for slightly different reasons, women playing contact sports.

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:00

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 11:56

Yes transwomen are men. They offend at least the same rates as other men, so why would they be given special treatment in this regard?

As for your safety, I agree there are plenty of privileged women who are unlikely to see much difference.

The people who will see themselves better protected here are female prisoners, women in domestic abuse shelters, women in hospital wards, women needing rape counselling services, sick/disabled women needing intimate care. Also, for slightly different reasons, women playing contact sports.

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“They offend at least the same rates as other men…”

Evidence please.

Also, again, like everyone else in this thread, you are using emotive language and misjudging me as privileged (and so dismissing my actual and plentiful negative experiences with men). I am simply just asking for evidence to support your claims about trans women. How many of the 99% of male offenders identify as trans women?

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 12:06

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:00

“They offend at least the same rates as other men…”

Evidence please.

Also, again, like everyone else in this thread, you are using emotive language and misjudging me as privileged (and so dismissing my actual and plentiful negative experiences with men). I am simply just asking for evidence to support your claims about trans women. How many of the 99% of male offenders identify as trans women?

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There is evidence of course, but you miss the point entirely.

In order to make a case for this group of men to be treated differently to other men, it would be incumbent upon you to find the evidence that they offend at similar rates to women.

So where is that evidence? (I'll help you out here, you won't find it, though you're welcome to try).

If you can't see the issues arising for these vulnerable women in having men access their spaces then you clearly are privileged in many ways.

I understand that a woman who has never contemplated that they might go to prison, might not give much thought to the women who do end up here. But these women exist and habe very little voice in society.

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:11

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 12:06

There is evidence of course, but you miss the point entirely.

In order to make a case for this group of men to be treated differently to other men, it would be incumbent upon you to find the evidence that they offend at similar rates to women.

So where is that evidence? (I'll help you out here, you won't find it, though you're welcome to try).

If you can't see the issues arising for these vulnerable women in having men access their spaces then you clearly are privileged in many ways.

I understand that a woman who has never contemplated that they might go to prison, might not give much thought to the women who do end up here. But these women exist and habe very little voice in society.

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Sorry, your response is nonsensical and bizarre. I am making zero claim that trans women should be treated differently. The OP has said ‘of course women are safer’ - I’m asking for evidence to prove that to me. If you want people onside (assuming I am not) surely you’d provide that? Why on earth wouldn’t you?

It’s not up to me to provide any evidence whatsoever. I’m not here making any claims. I’m asking you all to help me understand your viewpoint. So far no one is. You’ve done a fair job insulting and dismissing my own lived experience though!

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 12:13

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:11

Sorry, your response is nonsensical and bizarre. I am making zero claim that trans women should be treated differently. The OP has said ‘of course women are safer’ - I’m asking for evidence to prove that to me. If you want people onside (assuming I am not) surely you’d provide that? Why on earth wouldn’t you?

It’s not up to me to provide any evidence whatsoever. I’m not here making any claims. I’m asking you all to help me understand your viewpoint. So far no one is. You’ve done a fair job insulting and dismissing my own lived experience though!

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Question for you, which I keep asking and you keep not answering ...

What is the justification for exempting one group of men from the rules we've established for all men? Why do that in the first place?

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:19

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 12:13

Question for you, which I keep asking and you keep not answering ...

What is the justification for exempting one group of men from the rules we've established for all men? Why do that in the first place?

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If you gave me any of the stats I asked for maybe I’d answer your question? I’m under no obligation to answer your question as I’ve made no statements of my own. This absolutely fruitless.

letsallchant · 21/04/2025 12:23

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:11

Sorry, your response is nonsensical and bizarre. I am making zero claim that trans women should be treated differently. The OP has said ‘of course women are safer’ - I’m asking for evidence to prove that to me. If you want people onside (assuming I am not) surely you’d provide that? Why on earth wouldn’t you?

It’s not up to me to provide any evidence whatsoever. I’m not here making any claims. I’m asking you all to help me understand your viewpoint. So far no one is. You’ve done a fair job insulting and dismissing my own lived experience though!

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OK I'll bite. What about

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

DarkForces · 21/04/2025 12:32

I mean trans women have literally taken to the streets holding signs about their desire to murder women and defaced statues of feminist icons. Can't imagine why I'd prefer not to share a loo, changing room or prison cell with them.

SternJoyousBee · 21/04/2025 12:47

But that is not what the OP said.

“The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.
Of course they will.
But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this.”

this would cover all men irrespective of whether they genuinely believe that they are women or not

“Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.
I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.”

she is talking about ALL men and not singling out transwomen who are of course in reality, and confirmed in law in respect to single sex spaces, men.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 14:22

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 10:38

I’m asking for the evidence which shows I will now be safer following the Supreme Court’s judgement. Where is the evidence that I was unsafe prior to the ruling? As per OP’s observations.

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What evidence do you expect exactly? Is the stories about the rates of TW raping women in female facilities not enough for you?

Also: common sense.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 14:26

Stompythedinosaur · 21/04/2025 11:10

You cannot tell who's a man and who's a woman from looking. So this ruling changes nothing. Rapists and abusers will continue to break the rules and go where they like.

In fact, if we become accustomed to seeing trans-men in female spaces, that makes it really easy for male-presenting people to go unquestioned.

If a week ago we assumed a rapist was willing to claim to be a trans-woman, why on earth would they not now claim to be a trans-man?

Of course you can tell. And it changes everything - we are protected by law if we want a man kicked out the changing rooms. Before the ruling, businesses would side with the men based on their “feelings” and complainants would be ostracised for being transphobic.

I really don’t understand what people don’t get about this?

Also do you think schools and nurseries shouldn’t bother with all the protections they can because pedophiles will find a way anyway?

In fact, if we become accustomed to seeing trans-men in female spaces, that makes it really easy for male-presenting people to go unquestioned.

Again this isn’t a few problem. We’ve become accustomed to seeing men in women’s spaces without knowing their intention - they’ve been presenting as women. Except now the law is on our side to protect women, not men. It wasn’t before.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:09

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:28

The Times article referenced in the link you sent is the source of the data and that article is behind a paywall. It’s not my job to go searching for the evidence, I’m asking the people making the claims (that I’m safer because trans women can’t access single sex spaces) to supply the evidence. Also, for information, that times article is the only one that’s whipped out when making claims like this. Anything more recent? Anything other than just one single source?

Remember that I’m asking for evidence regarding trans women. Not men. Trans women. You may not agree that trans women are not women, but they are not men. They are trans women. I’m asking for evidence regarding trans women specifically. How many of the 99% of male offenders are trans women? I’ll engage when someone can provide reliable evidence.

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You may not agree that trans women are not women, but they are not men.

What makes them not men?
Evidence has been posted numerous times on here. Did you miss it?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:10

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:40

Also, very amusing that an article to ‘prove’ the claims was provided but the data used in that article is inaccessible because it’s behind a paywall. Would suggest to me that people are reading blindly without interrogating the data… fascinating.

Edited

The Fair Play for Women website is not behind a paywall?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:16

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:47

Alright, if you want to say that trans women are men - of the 0.5% of trans people in the UK, how many of the 99% of male offenders (previously quoted by someone else) identify as trans women?

225

As of 2023

70% of transwomen in prison are there for sex crimes.

You’re welcome

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#transgender-prisoners

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2022-23

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#transgender-prisoners

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:17

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:49

You’re presupposing my views. The OP has stated that as a female I’ve woken up safer because trans women now can’t enter single sex spaces. I’m asking for evidence relating to trans women specifically to demonstrate that I was ever unsafe. Is it because ‘trans women are men’ ? Is that it?

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In a nutshell: yes

Transwomen are men and are part of the group that oppress and pair a danger to women. Ergo women can enjoy female only spaces without the presence of their oppressors.

Its really not rocket science

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:19

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:00

“They offend at least the same rates as other men…”

Evidence please.

Also, again, like everyone else in this thread, you are using emotive language and misjudging me as privileged (and so dismissing my actual and plentiful negative experiences with men). I am simply just asking for evidence to support your claims about trans women. How many of the 99% of male offenders identify as trans women?

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People have given you evidence. Why are you pretending they haven’t?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:20

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:11

Sorry, your response is nonsensical and bizarre. I am making zero claim that trans women should be treated differently. The OP has said ‘of course women are safer’ - I’m asking for evidence to prove that to me. If you want people onside (assuming I am not) surely you’d provide that? Why on earth wouldn’t you?

It’s not up to me to provide any evidence whatsoever. I’m not here making any claims. I’m asking you all to help me understand your viewpoint. So far no one is. You’ve done a fair job insulting and dismissing my own lived experience though!

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I mean you’ve been given evidence but are you gonna bother to take it in and listen? Or just whine about the poor menz and toilets?

Fingernailbiter · 21/04/2025 15:21

FebruaryUsername · 20/04/2025 12:32

Women are now going to be put on situations where they have to prove they are biologically female to claim the protections that we are entitled to. For example, several police force have now said that male police officers will strip search trans women (and by extension, any woman they think is trans who doesn't happen to be carrying her birth certificate to prove that she was female at birth).

Your ridiculous "by extension" invalidates your point (which was silly in the first place).

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:25

Fingernailbiter · 21/04/2025 15:21

Your ridiculous "by extension" invalidates your point (which was silly in the first place).

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I’m honestly mortified for people saying this. Nothing has changed. Before this self ID nonsense went mainstream no one was expected to prove their sex, and the exact same act with exact same wording was in place as it is now.

Honestly the handmaidening going on is depressing. Where the support for the raped women? So much sadness for colonisers that are men and not a word about the women (and children) who’ve had their lives destroyed because TRAs decided to wrongly interpret the law their own way

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:15

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:19

People have given you evidence. Why are you pretending they haven’t?

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Incorrect. One person linked ‘evidence’ and the article that was linked referred to an article published in The Times, which is behind a paywall so the stats and data can’t be referenced or interrogated. Before your response, one person has given me a link. You have now provided a link to the research relating to GRA reforms (which I was aware of), and I appreciate something being provided amongst a sea of other people making assumptions about me and my personal lived experience. I’m not privileged and nor have I been immune so violence perpetrated by men. I don’t base my beliefs off emotive rhetoric and assumptions about specific groups of people. No one has actually asked for my own views (which, by the way, are not black and white and I do believe in single sex spaces particularly in places like prisons). But the response to a simple question like asking for evidence demonstrates perfectly why this issue is so polarising. You need to be open to people having open and real discussion on the topic, to them asking questions and understand different perspectives - everyone here has jumped on the defence instead of answering my very straight forward questions.

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:23

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:20

I mean you’ve been given evidence but are you gonna bother to take it in and listen? Or just whine about the poor menz and toilets?

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Prior to my last post directly to you, I’ve made no indication of my views on the topic. Why does everyone I’m asking for evidence immediately start insulting me? No one here can have a debate without letting their emotions influence them? incredible stuff.

letsallchant · 21/04/2025 16:31

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:15

Incorrect. One person linked ‘evidence’ and the article that was linked referred to an article published in The Times, which is behind a paywall so the stats and data can’t be referenced or interrogated. Before your response, one person has given me a link. You have now provided a link to the research relating to GRA reforms (which I was aware of), and I appreciate something being provided amongst a sea of other people making assumptions about me and my personal lived experience. I’m not privileged and nor have I been immune so violence perpetrated by men. I don’t base my beliefs off emotive rhetoric and assumptions about specific groups of people. No one has actually asked for my own views (which, by the way, are not black and white and I do believe in single sex spaces particularly in places like prisons). But the response to a simple question like asking for evidence demonstrates perfectly why this issue is so polarising. You need to be open to people having open and real discussion on the topic, to them asking questions and understand different perspectives - everyone here has jumped on the defence instead of answering my very straight forward questions.

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I posted a link at 12.23 and it wasn't to a Times article. Did you miss that? You said one person had given a link so I'm confused about which post you mean.

DarkForces · 21/04/2025 16:31

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:23

Prior to my last post directly to you, I’ve made no indication of my views on the topic. Why does everyone I’m asking for evidence immediately start insulting me? No one here can have a debate without letting their emotions influence them? incredible stuff.

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Take a look at Twitter if you want to see a proper mantrum. Tell a trans woman no and the male aggression comes out.