Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

I don't know what you expected me to say, or what the desired response was. If you want people to reply in a particular fashion, please make this clear beforehand.

So it depends on the circumstance. Which seems fair enough.

Oh wow! Thats quite a big accusation to make of the women of Mumsnet!! That you are ‘not safe’ in a bathroom with us!!

I thought the trans activist approach was to accuse women of making unfair generalisations of a ‘few bad apples’ when we wish to exclude men from our spaces but I guess consistent application of rules would be too much to expect.

And female criminals belong in female prisons. We don’t send violent women to men’s prisons.

some women are terrible humans.
some men are terrible humans
and believe it or not some trans people are also terrible people

and none of that undermines the need for women to have single sex protections under the Equality Act

There is consequences to decisions that we make and if a women takes powerful wrong sex hormones are drastically changed her appearance she may find that she cannot access some single sex provisions

You have just accused LittlerCharlotte of being a danger to you in the bathroom - a more eye wateringly unfounded accusation I don’t think I’ve seen. I think you should improve your reading comprehension and go and have a think about your hyperbole.

Sorry what now?

It’s awful when anyone is assaulted and your trauma is valid. If someone feels they can’t access the women’s toilets due to trauma, it’s advisable to seek help to heal your trauma. What isn’t acceptable is to use your experience to I gore and flout facts and statistics and make out women are a danger. They are not. It’s not on womankind to change to accommodate the trauma of one person.

Indeed: that's a possible consequence to a woman's decision to take such hormones.

I don't belittle the desire to transition, but the only people who have been facing the consequences of the choices others take have been those who don't take this choice, overwhelmingly women, and it's not our burden to carry. Just as, if you transition, you cannot expect to carry on competitively in a sport you enjoy in the category of your chosen gender, you cannot expect everything to go entirely your way when it comes to single sex spaces.

I am the op. Weirdly I got kicked off Mumsnet with no email explaining why shortly after I posted this thread.

does this usually happen?

I am a 5" 11 woman with size 11 feet. I also have a funny walk and pee with a catheter, both due to an incomplete spinal cord injury. I look very female, but have been accused of being trans. I am now minimising trips out, because I daren't go into Ladies toilets now and I also get shit for using disabled toilets. So yes, aberrations like me walk among us. But hey, collateral damage for the cause I guess.

It can do yes. Also creating multiple accounts is against the rules so just be careful

I’m sorry you face difficulties but what do you suggest as a solution? Lose our provision to single sex spaces to allow AGPs access to our spaces?

As I said, my solution is to avoid using public toilets at all. Like I said, collateral damage.

Sorry but it didn’t come across as sincere … all that was missing was an eye-roll emoji.
I have already said that I was frequently mistaken as make when I was younger. But I am happy to be questioned by a concerned women rather than allow men easy access to our spaces

@ThisUsernameIsNowTaken
Did you actually read the post? The OPs views are actually shared by the majority. She is entitled to her opinion and perfectly valid views without being accused of being ‘anti trans’ My issue with this whole argument is exactly this. You can’t express relief as a woman for not having the very real fear of having to share your changing rooms etc with men without being accused of being anti trans. I’m not remotely anti trans and in no way does it appear that the OP or anyone else who agrees with the ruling is.

I have just seen this on threads. Women are not safer... www.threads.net/@laurasidestreet/post/DIrlJVRA_Nr?xmt=AQGzWKD0wALihORDehr33iWE3EzD5VKSkYjs-C0f87BMsg

We can all find random anecdotes that support our view. This happened a year ago so how does it show the impact of the SC ruling?

I'm surprised you get "shit" for using disabled toilets given that you are disabled. You have every right to use them and the ladies' loo. I'm surprised also you've been accused of being trans. What happened when you said you weren't?

Carry on using both facilities as you are perfectly entitled to. But please don't belittle "the cause" as something inconsequential. Women's rights aren't inconsequential.

So you are going to let the idiots win and not even use a disabled toilet? My DS is disabled and sadly we don’t live in a perfect world, I’m always gonna get morons making comments but I’ll be damned if I let them get to me. A sarcastic reply usually works a treat.

Yeah a lot of us are collateral damage - non gender conforming people of both sexes, women with PTSD, people with religious beliefs, LGB people, ND and mentally unwell children who've been told they're in the wrong body, little girls sexuallly assaulted in Morrisons toilets, women prisoners locked up with violent men to protect the men for mother violent men.

We're collateral damage to the cause of an aggressive mens rights movement. Not the cause of women's single sex spaces. Put the blame where it belongs.

Rather embarrassed your “proof” is random unsubstantiated (and let’s face it, unlikely) story about something happened before the ruling. What don’t you understand about toilets being the thin end of the wedge?

Yep - it’s funny how “A woman misgendered in the loo” distresses people more than “women raped by TW in prison DV shelters and hospital wards”.

Well said. I’m sick of women being made out to be the demons. We’re not

Who hassles you for using the disabled loo? I used it regularly when I had kids in nappies as that's usually where the baby change is, and am guilty of still sometimes using it for convenience. It would be perfectly reasonable for someone to challenge me as I am not disabled - I've never been challenged and never seen anyone else challenged for misuse of disabled facilities. If someone wrongly challenges you surely you just say you have a disability they can't see and it's none of their business?

I'm sorry this has affected you but it's certainly not an argument to allow men into women's facilities. At least now we can safely challenge males in women's spaces without fear of being accused of hate crimes. I'm rather upset a masculine looking female than allow a predatory male into women's spaces.