Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

Read up on misogynoir.

It was in response to orthodox women not being able to use mixed changing rooms. Mixed changing rooms at pools have been around for a few years. I doubt it has anything to do with trans, it's more likely they were put in to keep children safe as they could stay with their parents without being challenged.

The huge difference is that they can be challenged! Reported! Shamed!

In my local area a man went into the females stood just inside the cubicles and wanked himself off to a woman coming in. She was able to run back outside to her relative and take a picture of him coming out and reported it to the facility and later the police.

Having men allowed to be in there weakens the case as he could say he was a woman and was just "fixing himself" and she was mistaken.

Baristas might mot feel able to challenge in Starbucks but at least there is some way of challenging

This

I have read several examples of how this should play out but you seem to be fixated on absolutes. Unless we can accurately identify 100% of TIMs in female spaces we can’t do anything?
Do you think that stealing smart phones shouldn’t be a crime just because the police rarely do anything even when provided with evidence of where the phone is?

I know that some TIMs will continue to use some female single sex spaces. But there is a bigger issue that just toilets. Its prisons, intimate care, hospital wards, rape and DV refuges, lesbian groups, sport etc. I don’t believe it’s logical (or sensible in legal sense ) to say that someone is a woman for some purposes but not others. So men irrespective of their different identities should be excluded from the category of woman

And removes the problem that businesses and services who did want to maintain single sex services had because they couldn’t ask to see a GRC so self-id has become the norm via the back door.

Our gym has open changing areas, one single cubicle, four showers with those pathetic curtains like you had at school.

I agree with, and welcome, the ruling. However I think that TRA will now up the anti, and become more extreme, more violent and strident in their demands that the world buy into their delusions.

This will make the world more dangerous for women, especially ones who have challenged gender ideology and women's rights to safe spaces. If this does come about I hope that this will be a temporary situation, before sanity is restored.

I don't have any evidence that this will happen, its just my opinion, and experience of dealing with spoilt toddlers. It takes more than one tantrum not getting the desired outcome for them to understand the world doesn't revolve around them, and this particular group of large dangerous toddlers have been indulged and pandered to for far too long for them to take this setback lying down.

I fear the war is far from won.

They can be excluded from women’s spaces so this isn’t the gotcha you think it is

The poster is actually correct.

There is a long history of calling and seeing Black women as masculine and considering them sub-human and that still effect Black women today. Serena Williams and Former First Lady Michelle Obama dealt with such rhetorics so unsure why you are writing as if it isn’t true. Both are still believed and called men by some.

It also was only a few weeks before the ruling that a biological 6’4 woman was fired from her job in the States because she reported an incident to the wrong manager where a male customer went into the ladies bathroom she was in alone, shouting anti-trans rhetoric while his wife and daughter begged him to leave.

Black women, like other women, can now be guaranteed their rights to single sex spaces in prisons, shelters, counselling, hospital wards, sports, changing rooms. Of course that will ultimately make safer.

The behaviour of TRAs this weekend and anytime women try to gather to discuss women’s rights and issues is all the evidence I need for maintaining our single sex spaces. There are undoubtedly some TiM and TiF who are vulnerable but those on the streets yesterday were not the vulnerable. The filthy thugs yesterday are people I am happy to keep out of single sex spaces. And if I am challenged in the loo by another woman because I don’t look stereotypically feminine I will not be offended and it will be a small price to pay.

The fact that there are (probably fictional) racists around doesn’t mean that men who wish they were women should be allowed into women’s spaces. HTH.

There is no such thing as a “cisman”. Men are male and women are female. That’s all. You can use your fringe ideological jargon if you wish, but don’t be surprised if the average person is turned off by it.

Transwomen who've had genital surgery aren't necessarily safe to be around - 'Sarah Jane' Baker being an obvious example.

But also I don't think we should ever make having genital surgery any kind of pass because it may encourage more transpeople to have that surgery. Which I would never want anyone to feel they should do because it's completely barbaric, causes infertility and incontinence and sometimes lifelong ill health. I don't want anyone to go through what some transpeople have been through when they've believed the lies that it is possible to form the opposite sex genitals by surgery. What has been done to some transpeople by surgeons should be a crime.

The war is very far from won. And as I saw a poster on another thread note, this is like when a woman leaves a DV relationship, thats the most dangerous time because the narcissistic abuser is now angered and trying to reassert his control.

The aggressive misogynist TRAs haven't been told no in years. They're not used to it and they're not going to take it well.

But this had to happen, there's no way to gain back the rights which were stolen from us, without making the thieves angry. We could really do with some strong political leadership, because attempts to placate or play both sides will just be seen by the screaming violent incels as a green light. Though I'm not madly hopeful there.

Yes I agree with that. On another thread there was a kind of squaring off to the word no.

Men, and some of their allies, do not like women saying no and get angrier.

I found it a useful descriptor when discussing patriarchy. I hadn't expected this.

Where did I say that?

There were also no fictional racists calling two well-known Black women men and trans, they were very real and was talked about.

Says a lot about you to dare act as if it is untrue and not completely surprised by comments like yours.

The only people I have seen trying to argue that black women are like men are trans activists.

The existence (or not) or other racists is not relevant to the main point of my comment which you conveniently ignored.

Racists existing still doesn’t mean that men should be allowed into women’s spaces. Your argument is null.

This again 😴 how many more of these do we have to see, just add to another thread we don’t need more of the same

Nobody's arguing that black women are like men.

If you read up on the history of feminism, womanism, and racism, you'll see that black women are judged differently historically in white-dominated or white supremacist societies.

Ignorance about women's history and the particular challenges black women have faced isn't a good look in people who want to act as champions and protectors of womanhood.

How do you not know this? Or is it distraction tactics? Is the white supremacy/gender critical nexus really A Thing? I hope not but the ignorance and reversals here suggest otherwise.

Yes, trans activists compare black women to men who wish they were women constantly. You clearly haven’t paid any attention to this at all. There are many comments to that effect even on this site.

BTW, nothing in your comment bears any relevance at all to my point. Just in case I didn’t explain it clearly enough for you.

Black women exist.

Racists exist.

Men who wish they were women do not belong in women’s spaces. HTH 😁

But it's not just crossing that Rubicon to attacks is it, it's just being able to feel safe without pervy eyes