Of course women will be safer

[HardyKoala]

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

Your point is what exactly?

Please tell me you are not suggesting that because some people have allegedly temporarily mistaken a black woman for a man that we should let any man who wants into female only spaces??

Untrue and lazy.
Don't inform yourself then.
I see you.

They do it because they are racists, not because they truly believe that Michelle O and Serena Williams are actually men. We can stand up to racists without having to allow men into our spaces

Third spaces are the answer to everything tbh. Noone should feel threatened ever!

When that lady was raped by a transwoman on a female only ward the NHS tried to say the rape didn't happen because by law, only men can race and there were no men on the ward because trans women are women.

It took a bloody long time for that lady to get any sort of acknowledgement of what happened to her.

In law, only men can rape.

There are transwomen in women's prisons convicted of sex offences who once again have raped female inmates.

Except if trans women are women it can't be rape because only men can commit the act of rape.

These women in these scenarios couldn't object to a man being in their space, because trans women have been enshrined as some sort of sub set of women when they are in fact men.

This means that they have had limited access to any sort of legal redress. That the perpetrators of these crimes have been off the hook. Crimes that should not have been committed in the first place if men and women were kept separately.

In practice it might not stop predators being predators but it will give additional protections to womens only spaces, and the right to legal redress when crimes do occur.

It's the same as saying men don't have a big neon sign saying wife beater on their head so how would anyone know, how would laws be enacted upon if a man does suddenly become a wife beater, men are allowed to have wives.

The ruling gives women the right to object where there is the perception of a single sex space becoming multi-sex space when it shouldn't without being labelled as a bigot or perpetuating hate crime.

In the case of nurse Sandy Peggie I hope this now means that she will no longer be able to be painted as a bully for waiting outside of the changing rooms for not wanting to undress in front of a man who in a tribunal court stated sex was a nebulous dog whistle and proceeded to take detailed notes of every perceived microagression from SP simply because she realised he was a man and did not want to get dressed with men.

So the law as it has now been clarified offers additional protections to women who may, or have already found themselves in compromising, unsafe and oppressive circumstances.

Until recently the police had no problem identifying what a woman was and telling us apart from men. Transwomen should be searched by a man. Transwomen should not search women (as British Transport Police were allowings trans identified men to do until this ruling).

It's a thread about women's rights and women's safety. Stop trying to make it all about trans. It's not.

Do you think this is a new problem?

Men have been going in toilets for years claiming to belong there and anyone concerned hasn’t been able to prove it. We also couldn’t complain about it. Now, we still can’t prove it but at least we can complain.

So if the answer to give free rein to toilets and changing rooms to anyone who fancies being there? There is no perfect solution - but there is a close-to-perfect, immutable solution. And that is to segregate by sex

No what? Are you refuting the fact that 98% of sexual crimes are committed by men?

Probably not - but the material point is, something can actually be done about it that isn’t demonising complainants. That is a HUGE improvement on the previous system and culture

I know what misogynior is - pretty sure saying black women look like men is part of it

No idea what it has to do with this ruling though

You do know that there is still a vast difference between men and women who identify as men?

I’m not sure who has insisted that we ‘want’ women who have tried to appear male in the ladies but they are entitled to be there because they are female.

You triumphantly repeat your totally imagined scenario that a man will claim to be a ‘transman’ in order to invade a women’s space without sanction but

a) there is literally no evidence of this ever happening and

b) if it had happened, all the woman would have to do is report it to the facility owner and they would be able to investigate, see that it was a man and take appropriate action.

This argument is on a par with ‘some people are racist and can’t recognise a woman when they see one so we must let all men into women’s spaces’ .

Totally scraping the barrel with that one.

It’s very strange that they’ve fixated on this ‘argument’ and are happy to be wildly racist to support men in women’s spaces.

It is not relevant to the fact that men do not belong in women’s spaces, no.

And as I say, the only people I see comparing black women to men to further their argument are trans activists.

I wish you would end that particular ‘discussion’ as it’s racist.

No, because again a woman's right to challenge this has been reiterated by the SC. Another will be chucked out because they are male.

If you want a sensible conversation perhaps don’t minimise the actions of sex offenders by saying there only 150 to worry about.

Do you have a source for your “only” 60 sex offenders?

However if we are being sensible the absolute factual reality is that trans women did not pose a significant threat to women so we are not significantly safer. If we want to be significantly safer

Thats obviously subjective because I completely disagree with you. Our very safety, agency and privacy was on the line. Women are an oppressed group. Men are our oppressors. For men to colonise and appropriate us is hugely significant - not just in terms of safety but privacy and dignity. I’ve said before my DD is 11 and is a boxer. Knowing she’ll never have to compete with a man, is hugely significant.

What makes us think this ruling stops anyone from doing anything??

I’ve no doubt the toddler strapped inside a man’s body will still disrespect women - I mean they’ve never respected us before so why would they start now - and many will still enter. But the law is on our side and they can be kicked out - and if a sexual assault happens, people will actually be held accountable rather than shrugging and saying “Well she said she was a woman so we didn’t stop her going on the ward/in the toilets/in the prison cell”. We have power over this, finally - and the accusations of bigotry will stop.

*A trans woman doesn’t stroll brazenly into a busy woman’s bathroom and attack a woman and a ha ha no one can stop me because I’m trans and I’m allowed in here 🙄

Oh dear you clearly haven’t been doing enough reading. It has happened. Do you want to actually know when and the impact on the victim who was gaslighted throughout?

Raping another human has always been illegal. That’s why it’s always done in secret.

Which is why we prevent at every possible step including getting men out of women’s spaces

In unisex changing villages there’s usually ample cubicles. Also - I EXPECT mixed sex spaces and choose to use them. I shouldn’t have men in my changing rooms that I’m not expecting when I’m single sex spaces

Apart from the inverted penis that is

Which is why 3rd spaces are crucial. Stonewall could have spent the years and money they spent shitting all over women campaigning for 3rd spaces instead, but they didn’t.

I’m correctly sexing men. There’s no such thing as cis. And yes I’m protecting women - even ungrateful man-centric deluded ones, because I’m even if someone is a dick or has internalised misogyny, women deserve safety.

Queening gender is a feminist act.

I don’t speak Word Saladnese, you’ll have to sue English terminology.

Yes, I think the father of ‘Katie’ Dolotowski’s 11yr old victim was actually waiting outside the ladies toilets (because he’s a normal human being) and ‘Katie’ was permitted to go in the ladies by his escorting social worker. He was being escorted in public by a social worker as part of his bail conditions for his previous sex offence of filming another young girl in the ladies toilets.

Totally brazen, totally predictable and totally preventable.

The people who argue in support of rules that will allow more of these situations should be ashamed of themselves.

That’s great, good for you’ But it bothers a lot of us. Many of us who’ve been sexually abused, raped and assaulted by men. Other women are Muslims or Orthodox Jews. can you understand that not everyone is like you, not everyone has the same needs and that sharing an intimate space would be triggering or impossible?

Wow.