Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

Mmn. In the 'nice' placards I notice absolutely no care about women's needs or the failures of the system so far for women.

It's still 'let's obliterate womens rights', just with the 'and rape/kill the ones who protest' signs hidden.

I thought I was hardened by now, but I have been really sickened this week by how little anyone cares about women and where this all came from, the events that have happened to women that drove it, the total lack of representation about the women's side of the story and their voices in the massed wail-in about poor men, and how devastated people are that things might happen to men when they have absolutely no fucks to give about what did happen to women, and would go on happening if this is overturned.

The values of this movement and of the OP are clear - the actions are fine so long as you're doing them to women and no men have had to hear the word 'no'. It isn't harming people that's wrong, it's just doing it to the wrong sex.

Americans still use the term “retard”, and black people use the “n” word. It doesn’t make either term right for general use.

Thank you for posting this. Everyone should hear it.

Surely it's a situation though for trans people, trans rights and trans lobby groups to address, and not for women to be bullied or coerced giving up their boundaries and long fought-for rights, or being made to do all the work in coming up with a solution? It's not actually our job to fix everything for everyone in a nice neat way with a bow on the top.

Dammit, the quote disappeared - sorry to whoever I was responding to.

Oh my goodness here we are again….

Why is it so difficult?

@Tandora do you not get that because we are GC does NOT mean we are discriminating against TIM or TIF. We want safety and happiness for them.

BUT not at the expense of safety, happiness and equity for women’s sex based rights.

Im amazed at how TRAs lack some basic analysis and understanding around this topic.

We might as well be having an argument with flat earthers or those who believe dinosaurs didn’t exist.

That’s because some of the countries included also use outdated terminology. Did you see which countries abstained in that vote? Did you notice that in the list of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights a vital word is missing from the list of characteristics - race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion - go on, guess which word I’m thinking of?
which affirms that all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights, and that everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in the Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status

Imagine if you said I know technically I'm from Bath but I really believe deep down in my soul that I'm Korean and if you don't accept that you're a bigot. Then imagine you started talking in a Korean accent to align with your self perception. Then imagine that instead of spending your spare time joining anti-racism groups and campaigns to better the lives of ethnic minorities (including yourself?) in the UK, you instead chose to protest against Korean people.

Even if they have gone through all that, they didn't just start using women's spaces at that point did they? They have been breaching boundaries well before that stage. They are still male, unilaterally deciding that they are more important than women.

I have a horrible feeling that in many cases it is because clean cut young female athletes who could easily be your daughter elicit more sympathy than poor immigrant women, women escaping domestic violence or women in prison for stealing money to buy drugs, whose lives are too far removed from those of middle class Guardian readers.

You are confusing your opinion with facts, which is a common mistake when dealing with this ideology. People can’t change sex, it’s binary and immutable, that is a fact, not an opinion. The Supreme Court has clarified that this week, therefore TW are men and TM are women. They can believe what they want about themselves but they have no recourse to the law.

So the law and biological facts override your opinion.

Gender identity and ideology is the oppressive, regressive, misogynistic and dishonest thing here, not biological facts or the law.

There are people all over the world who embrace the terminology of “intersex” and prefer it to “dsd” which they find offensive. Equally, there are others who feel the opposite.

#facts

And you don't get to reinvent misogyny as anti-trans ideology. That is you gaslighting the whole female sex.

Oh god no. Make it stop! 🙈🙈

Supporting trans people is not misogyny. No matter how many times you say it, it won’t make it true.
You cannot make trans people disappear so this argument will continue.

I think you're right.

Much easier to screw over the female 'losers' (who are already marginalised and oppressed by society) than the 'winners'.

This says so much about how women are really viewed in our world. 😡

Sex is binary. Thankfully the Supreme Court has more impact than a placard.

It's alright, Tandora won't do it. She can't.

Who is trying to make trans women disappear?

Then campaign to make the men's more accommodating for men who are transgender or for 3rd spaces.

The women's provides safe guarding and dignity to biological women.

I see no reason why women should solve the problem of men misbehaving.

And is against the law.

Straw man. No-one is saying this and no-one is trying to make trans people disappear. You just made this up.

I think you are here in bad faith.

Replacing the female sex with the concept of a gender identity ie a 'female brain' is absolutely misogyny in it's purest form.

Third spaces are not transphobic or hateful.

These people are protesting that women’s spaces are not available to anyone and everyone which is misogynistic.

Every single person who says that trans women are men for one.

I had a chicken coop in my garden, with 20 Hens in it. There's a fox that comes to my garden most days, and he's always dressed like a hen. He's a lovely fox, and out of respect for him, I called him a hen, and I also let him into the chicken coop.

After a few months, several more local foxes wanted to go into the chicken coop, some were dressed as hens and some weren't (but they said they "felt like hens"), so in the spirit of inclusion and "be kind", I allowed this. Now, all my hens are dead. I guess I just had no way of knowing, which foxes really wanted to be a hen, and which ones only said that they did, because they wanted to eat my hens.

I'm not sure what to do when I buy more hens? Should I just say that no foxes are allowed in the coop at all, even if they are wearing a hen costume, because that way my hens won't be exposed to any risk, or should I let all foxes into the coop and risk the lives of more hens?

Answers on a postcard please.