Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

Is this satire or genuine? It’s hard to tell.

Or what a woman is.

The metric certainly won't be how they identify internally will it? It will be on verifiable sex, same as for every woman.

True. They want to erase the legal existence of female people as a distinct single sex legal and social group called "women", and replace that with a mixed sex group based on feeling that would be called "women" instead. "Women" woudl still exist but the actual people would be different.

But here is the trick and the tell... they want the original group to carry on doing what they always did being female-bodied women in single sex spaces even though their spaces are now mixed sex and their identity as female has been delegitimised, so that the trans women's fantasy of womanhood is still there for them to inhabit.

It's not enough to tell us we have to include them, the TRA version of trans acceptance also requires that we are not allowed to leave, to say "oh ok, if that is what a woman is, turns out I'm not one, I'll just go and set up something for female-bodied people somewhere else" because even though they do not accept womanhood is female bodied, they also do not accept female bodied people defining themselves as simply female outside genderist roles.

Once you see it you can't unsee it. TW need us to accept the definition of women as not because of sex to let them in, but carry on behaving as if it was so the place they wanted to get in to continues to exist.

Did you mean to be so racist?

Oh thank you. No, I just have a deep love for alpacas and feel my life garden would be much enhanced with one in it.

Unfortunately the big man has yet to deliver but its no surprise as I'm still waiting on a Barbie dream house too 🙄.

The "but not all" brigades are really irritating. When something like this happens your community should condone the behaviour and make it clear that it is unacceptable.

Our local Muslim community went through something terrible and they immediately condoned the behaviour and said that the individuals involved did not live by the morals and beliefs a Muslim should have.

On the other hand we have posts like this. It's like the "not all men" comments. No one said it was all TRAs but your reaction is very telling. Your community is built on misogyny and none of you are willing to call it out when you see it.

But trans women are actually men, and they offend at the same rate as other men. This includes violent crime, and crimes of a sexual nature. Statistically, they are as much of a threat to women as any other man.

When it comes to sex offences this is not true. Men who identify as women are actually much more likely to sexually offend than other men (cf census). Statistically they are more of a threat to women than other men.

It was explained it on page 3 of the judgement.

If the law can't define what a woman is, then yes, women are erased. That's the whole modus operandi and what TRAs are aiming for.

So yes, they do want to erase women. See also the word cis. By referring to biological women as CISwomen, that's making them a subset of their own biolobigal class so transwomen can claim women as their own. This is a huge part of TWAW and why it was so important for the word women to be defined in law.

Hope that helps.

What are they though if not men?

I’m a woman. Can I be a trans woman? Why not?
What do you have to be in order to be a trans woman?

But it really is with regards to sex. A person born with vagina - woman. A person born with a penis- man. This is science. Every other take on this particular aspect of science is ideology, not science.

Yes but you’ve misunderstood.

Biological sex in the judgement isn’t your interpretation.

If you’re relying on that to keep single sex spaces as they are it won’t do it. They will only be for women (not your definition of women).

If trans women were real women they would understand our point of view, our concerns, our fears.

OP, it is almost as if you are not interested in reading or engaging with my request.

Third time lucky.....

Please can you share the science, which I assume sets out how I, a woman who has gone through periods, pregnancy, C-section, hysterectomy and menopause, am the same as a human who has is so mentally troubled that they have had surgery to remove their healthy penis and testicles and implant fake breasts?

I am interested to read and engage.

They have absolutely no interest in any of that. They want womem to STFU and let them ride rough shod over them - incels that they are.

Please, answer the question. I really. want to be educated!

Thank you 😘

I'd get this awful racist comment deleted if I were you.

How was that post completely wrong? Transwomen are biological males, that is a fact whether you like it or not.

Firstly, I never mentioned ‘gender’. I mentioned sex.

I’m asking you and @tandora and all the rest of you people so adamant that TWAW to show me the irrefutable proof, the scientific fact that a person born with XY chromosomes, the exact chromosomes that make them male, that give them their male body and their male hormones can become a female (a person with XX chromosomes). How, how do they do that? How does a Male with XY chromosomes all of a sudden become a Female with XX chromosomes. Answer it. The truth is, you can’t. Because it cannot be done.

and yes, women (because that’s what they are) who ‘identify’ as men are more than welcome in the toilets with me - because, they are women.

As for using my energy to protest the harassment, violence, misogyny and murders perpetrated by men (no such thing as CIS - unless you’d like me to use the prefix of ‘fake’ when talking about transwomen?) I do. And that’s why it’s so important to include this as part of that protesting and campaigning.

So, getting back to my original point before you tried to ‘word soup’ us all - tell me where the science is that a Male can become a Female - biologically.

but there’s no place for a civilised conversation when people just keep insisting that transwomen are men and that stating otherwise is a conspiracy to destroy women.

How do they differ from men?

What word would you use to describe women that excludes them?

Brilliant post! You can't see me, but I am giving you a standing ovation!

For anyone fairly new to this, the SC affirmed and suggested what MNetters have been proposing from 2016 and earlier.

Just saying one of the remaining Spartacus threads.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread?latest=0

VanishingVision I salute you. I have desperately wanted someone from the transcommunity to understand that women just want to protect the most vulnerable in society as well as their rights. I genuinely hope for you and others in the transcommunity that as a society we can support you to also get to a place where you can feel safe and live your life the way you choose free from prejudice.

I'm always impressed by how patient a lot of MNs are when faced with TRAs and their endless stream of unscientific drivel. The OP thinks refusing to say that transwomen are women is oppression. When someone is so completely lacking in any kind of perspective, or any ability to look at a situation from someone else's pov, then discussions will always be futile.

There's a saying: you can't reason someone out of an opinion they haven't reasoned into.

The fact that @Tandora said that women's consent to having transwomen in their spaces is irrelevant, marks them out as just another misogynist in the sea of misogynists pissing out their hatred of women all over the internet today.

@Tandora will never have any respect for women.