Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

Trans people exist. Trans women exist. They exist like an anorexic. I’m denying an anorexic is fat. I’m not denying they exist.

Love the “balance” of posters calling women misogynistic slurs for objecting to male threats of violence.

All great sunlight, do carry on. 🌞

So transowmen have always existed but they can’t exist in a society that is arranged around the biological definition of man and woman - so they have never existed until now ?

Photos to share on balance would be signs demanding their own sports category, own toilets, own wards within prisons (such as a trans woman ward within men’s prisons).
I suspect there are no such photos.

Ooo @aylis I think that might be too tricky !

Any update on the meaning of the word woman yet?

I happily accept that a trans person is a trans person, that isn't erasing them at all. However as long as there are things that are split by binary functions rather than allowing for this third "state" of "trans", then there needs to be one thing to divide them. And in this case, as clarifies by the Courts, it's biology. If you can think of a more black and white definition then many of us are all agog to hear what it is.

I don't know when TW are likely to start using female changing rooms. But if they were using them post-hormone therapy and social transition (like growing hair long, wearing makeup and female clothing) but before surgery, and same after surgery, then they were never a threat, right?

If men want to attack women, most of them don't choose to dress up as women and access female spaces in daytime. They stay as men and attack women walking in the dark alone.

Absolute nonsense. A dear male friend - who had taken zero oestrogen and wasn't remotely trans - goy breast cancer and died from it. Please stick to facts.

So you accept transwomen are different to women.

So not women. So you don’t disagree with the clarification made the SC then? And must disagree with the protests? So where’s all the distress that women aren’t causing transwomen coming from?

Are you suggesting the protests happened because some trans women don’t like the way women have interpreted the ruling?

really? There aren’t protesting the ruling itself? Are you sure?

A whole protest because some women have interpreted a ruling in a way they don’t like. Seems like an over reaction.

But the way that the judgement has been interpreted as mandating the exclusion of trans women - and anyone who doesn’t conform to some unspecified definition of “biological female” - from all women’s spaces- is a dangerous new variety of fascism

It’s not the way it’s been interpreted, it’s what it actually said, Tandora. Sex in the EA means biological sex not (GRC) certificated sex. The definition of biological female is very simple and not in dispute.

So you think that women are just being nasty and mean to want to exclude TW (biological males) from their single sex rape centres? Can you not conceive of why they might want to? Of the trauma they’ve suffered?

Don't think I've had a response yet.

@Tandora I would like a definition of your understanding of trans, and what is the minimum requirement to be trans.

Lurkers are being treated to quite the whistle stop tour of the “trans movement” across Mumsnet today.

👏👏👏

The Supreme Court ruling was the right one.

The protestors need to live with the ruling, and move on with their lives.

Simples.

They’ve also not told me the biological differences between a man and a trans woman.

or the similarities between a woman and a trans woman.

The pushing of self-id, however, meant no man HAD to dress up to enter women's spaces and the pushing of the nonsense by Stonewall meant women could never object lest we be called "bigots" and worse.

Picture No 2

How do we know which men are predatory until it's too late?

If you look at the number of transgender people in the prison population I think you might revise your opinions of how much a threat these people are

last year a girl got into the car of a “woman” because she though the woman would be safe
the girl was abducted
lucjiky she managed to alert the police whilst he slept

so don’t tell me transowmen never harm anyone

ghey harm women at the same rate as any if he type of man

Ladies - you cannot rationalise somebody out of a position they did not rationalise themselves into

Please remember that before wasting energy typing long and logical explanations to a person who does not want to understand

Nice sexism is still sexism.

Women are not a feeling in someone's head that sits outside of and indepent from a physical embodied existence. We are not something that men can observe or reason their way into becoming. We are not a metaphor, a protest, a costume or an energy.

We are female humans, embodied and complete in our own right, and our individual personalilties are the sum of the ongoing intersection of and interaction between our inner emotional and mental world and the experiences of our sexed bodies in the physical outer world. The story of women and the rights we have is the story of the needs and oppression of female people and our fight against that to have equal power and agency in society.

It is not positive, nice or progessive to deny us our existence and voice in history, law, social spaces and language even if that oppression comes with smiles, hugs and rainbows.

In reality they do whatever it takes to access their chosen group. Often whatever they want, enabled by people who close ranks around them.

There's no point talking to a brick wall whose only desire is to topple women and crush them into compliance.

it’s truly insane. There’s no arguing with it

@Tandora
Nobody is trying to stop trans people existing. They can peacefully exist along us. But women have every right not to consent to sharing single sex spaces with biological males.
You seem to love the word fascism. Obviously you don’t understand what this word means, because if you did, you would know that women fighting for their rights is opposite of fascism.
But I will play along with you. One of the characteristics of fascism is “forcible suppression of opposition” Here are some examples of this:
A woman losing her job for objecting to sharing changing facilities with a biological male.
Women not allowed to object when they lose a sports competition to a biological male.
A woman being raped at a hospital ward and that gaslight that there was no man on the ward.
Lesbians being forced to accept biological males in their groups.
Women from ethnic minorities, who for religious or cultural reasons want single sex spaces, being pushed out from sport activities as they are no longer single sex.

All these were inflicted on women by trans ideology. So it is NOT women who are fascist.

Why don’t you try googling a counterfactual to your assumptions before making such a falsifiable assertion?