Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

Pity you started with breast cancer. Because they can.

Then link me and I’ll read it. It probably won’t be today because of Easter and the Bank Hol, but I will look if you link me to what you’re talking about.

You mentioned an interplay of sex and gender previously. To be clear, I’m saying that no human can change sex and that a TW doesn’t change sex when they transition - because it’s not possible for them to do so.

It's got nothing to do with your consent

As I teach my children people who don't accept your no are not safe to be around

Small correction - transwomen can get breast cancer, as men do have some breast tissue. Less common than in women but it does happen. The rest is true, and your point, obviously, still stands.

"Only men could oppress women for thousands of years, then turn around, put on a dress, and complain that they are the most marginalized group in society."
Kara Dansky

Tandora you've asked for balance on mumsnet so I'm going to give you some.

Trans people have not lost anything by this ruling it has just clarified the law that some (loads) of institutions choose to ignore.
My cards are I have a trans adult child. You and I have shared posts before.
Scotland was particularly effected by piss taking (pun intended) by TRA. I'm in the rural south of England so we do not suffer so much by mob rule.

I have worked with trans people for over forty years and I really couldn't care less what they wear or call their selves. But you must understand the narrative that was pushed by Stonewall and it's 'friends'. It has effected thousands of women and children. This is not a female friendly organisation who don't even understand lesbianism. Why? Because they are men centric.
We are a mix heritage family and have many friends who cannot have their safe spaces compromised. Equality is not at the expense of these women. I don't care if a TW pees next to me but if you give me cause for concern I'm going to shout like hell and I'm scared of noone.
The trans community would do better to campaign for third spaces in shops and malls. Higher education establishments and public spaces already have them as do new builds. You know this.
No body has lost the fight, the Supreme Court has just reminded people that the threats (in employment etc) and pressures to biological women are unlawful.
As I say to my daughter you choose to be a trans person but you are still my daughter and a women. She doesn't disagree because she is both kind and intelligent. I will always stand up for trans people and those on FWR know that but don't use this ruling in bad faith. It does more harm than good.

Trans women are women. Are they exactly the same in all aspects as cis women? No. Are there circumstances in which it might be legitimate to treat these groups differently due to physical (or potentially other ) differences ? Yes.
In so far as this is all the judgement said then I don’t object to the judgement.

But the way that the judgement has been interpreted as mandating the exclusion of trans women - and anyone who doesn’t conform to some unspecified definition of “biological female” - from all women’s spaces- is a dangerous new variety of fascism.

Unfortunately what you will not appreciate is where I feel that line needs to be! Somewhere waaay different to where you seem to think it should be, which seems to be right towards the "if you haz wimmins feelz you're a woman" end.

I disagree with transwomen taking part in female sports, from the simple fact that once they have passed puberty they have near enough all the advantages of a man even if they do have testosterone suppression. I feel women's spaces such as rape centres, gynaecology examinations, changing rooms & toilets, prisons etc should only allow fully transitioned transwomen in, and then only if the biological woman is OK with it. I feel women who have been traumatised by men shouldn't have to use a male doctor or counsellor. I feel women who belong to religions which say only another woman can treat them should be able to have only a biological woman to treat them.

And I strongly believe that anyone who claims to be a "transwoman" then states things like "rape them with my lady dick", that people who insist that lesbians who don't want to have sex with a penis inserted by someone physically male must be "transphobic", or anyone who advocates violence to women purely because they don't agree, have given up any right to ever be considered to be a "transwoman" or any type of woman as long as they live.

You also don't get to consent to the reality of the single sex class of female.

It exists with or without your approval.

No one born male belongs to it irrespective of who approves or disapproves.

‘You want me to say it again’

What’s with this squaring off.

Look we could have continued to say yes but it’s a no. And the law is finally changing thanks to the Supreme Court ruling.

Voters will vote on this and politicians will react. I know you started the thread to say look at these ‘positive’ placards. Your posts aren’t helping your cause. They have been offensive and deeply oppressive at times with the fascism and patriarchy one.

Again thank you for your response. So we agree that medical treatment for a Trans Woman would be tied into a male medical model (prostate checks etc).
I'm genuinely interested to know though what social differences you think could or should be applied. So, for example, do you think that Trans women should be allowed to compete in female sporting categories, and do you think that a trans women offender should be held in a female prison?
Also do you think that there is any difference between trans women who have undergone medical transitioning and those who haven't?

Well I thought you were reasonable based on your last post. Then you said this and proved me wrong;
"if you haz wimmins feelz you're a woman" end.
Shame.

I have done you the courtesy of an advanced search to audit your science claims.

I read a bunch of assertions and claims that show that you borrowed your‘ ‘science’ from unreliable sources.

Your choice of course.

The definition of female is very well established.

Can you explain the biological differences between man and trans woman?

I'm wondering what's going to happen if trans men now use female spaces. I keep reading on here that trans men can pass much more easily than trans women and that they are most welcome in women's spaces.. So isn't it going to be a bit of an invitation to men with nefarious intentions to enter women's spaces and claim to be a trans man? How is anyone going to know who is who? Many trans men look extremely male, it's very hard to tell. How are they going to prove it?

They aren’t the same in any aspect.

This is like incel-speak 🫠

Can you explain the differences? And also explain the nature of the oppression?

Everyone in this world exists.

No one can be coerced, however, into believing the delusions of others.

Unfortunately delusion isn’t sex specific. There’s a few women on my socials (not close friends luckily) who are harping on about trans women being women and disagreeing is akin to demanding trans genocide. A lot women will always, always put men front of centre regardless. Quite depressing.

I've also noticed that just about all your rhetoric, and that I've heard about the "non-violent" protests and in fact all the loud comments previously, are only ever about transwomen never transmen.

I never hear of transmen threatening to stuff a barbed wire covered truncheon up the arse of a man to punish them, or to stab them for their views, or to hope they get burned in a grease fire, or anything like that.

It also seems strange that there is such a massive imbalance between the numbers of men wanting to transition to women vs women wanting to transition to men, and most especially when the transitions are in name/actions only & without surgery. Can you link us to the research that looks into that?

well this is completely false isn’t it?

Isn't it? There's no difference at all.

MRA 🤝 TRA.

Of course transowmen are not women !

the only thing that unites and is common to all women is the chromosome stuff which leads to the genitals

it’s the only thing - you can’t find a single other thing that unites women can you? Slow hand clap whilst we wait for that answer

or perhaps we should start chanting “ why are we waiting “

take that away as the definition and you don’t have women or men so transgender people would have defined themselves out of existing-

( oh and please don’t be so unkind as to drag chromosomes disorders into this because transpeople don’t have them)